Dude, I’d take your diminished FTP any day. At 56 now, I haven’t been able to get the FTP over 250 for the last few years. Thrilled with my results but more is always better.
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Really thanks again for your input.
Just out of curiosity, what % of FTP (not pedestrian at all btw ;)) are those sub lt1 intervals?
My rudimentary german is failing me… does that mean “not sober”? Using EtOH for fuel probably changes the RER calculations, not that I’ve ever looked into it so I’m sure someone else can elaborate on if I got that right or wrong. Typically with poor warmup ramp/step tests I see the opposite which is carbs elevated at first then dropping to minimum around halfway through (as lipolysis ramps up) before carbs ramping up again.
The recommendation to start slow and wait for fat availability/metabolism to increase is because you’ll go through glycogen stores pretty quickly before then, which really impacts the durations that can be achieved. Adaptation doesn’t depend on what you’re burning, but duration of the stimulus (e.g. redox demand, elevated calcium, etc) matters so blowing through glycogen early on an endurance ride to hit a power target and bonking later is quite counterproductive. While going hard sometimes is fine/necessary and end exercise low glycogen seems to be related to AMPK signaling, it’s far from the only signal and should absolutely not happen every day because restoration/supercompensation takes more than 24h. So start slow, let the effort come to you naturally, and have lots of snacks.
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My unprofessional recommendation would be to start at 80% FTP and adjust down if your HR goes above 83% of max. Don’t adjust up for the first couple weeks or so, see how your HR is by the end of each workout and see if you can absorb the work.
If your HR is good, try 1x60 the next week … and see how long you can go keeping HR below 83%.
The point is to absorb the work without the “metabolic cost” - I put that in quotes because I’m not sure I’m using it correctly. Think about it this way … you’re trying to take 2 steps forward, 1 step back; go too high and you’ll take 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
Or something like that.
I feel very uncomfortable giving such prescriptive info, since all of this is in the name off experimentation. I was just trying to give some quick advice on how to find the top of Z2/LT1 without a lactate meter or overthinking it.
Also, as yet another disclaimer … I’m 48 y.o., so YMMV depending on experience/recovery needs.
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Preach.
I’m just indulging in self pity. Dropping 25 watts in about two months was a weirdly difficult mental hurdle. Like I said “fragile ego” lol
Someone is always faster, someone is always slower. And the beat goes on …
I’m just getting back on the bike after six months off. I’ve stayed fit with running, rowing, and weight lifting. It will be interesting to see how fast my biking fitness comes back.
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Correct. Thanks for taking time here on the forum and for your podcast…highly recommended.
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Where does this standardized special number come from?
It’s his coach’s protocol. The idea is to ride at tempo/fatmax/lactate balance point power but if heart rate goes out of the zone, you throttle back. Eventually as you get fitter, heart rate should stay in check for the whole interval.
There’s a topic:
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Are you saying that Steve Neals Balance Point is actually the top of ISM’s Z2 then ?
No @carytb its not.
LT1 < LBP < LT2 , with FTP not used, and SweetSpot essentially threshold (not sustainable day-to-day).
Andrew Sellers does a good job explaining it to Sean Seale (Upside Strength) if you want to look up that podcast.
It’s a type of tempo training that I have had a lot of success with, starting around 2019 (prior to that a misapplication of Selier stuff, and prior to that TR plans).
It is very similar to ISM high Zone2 training but details differ, as does the jargon/nomenclature. One central idea is that you don’t train right at LT1 unless you have a ton of time. It’s usually just over LT1 at an intensity that you can sustain with steady lactate and HR for 30, 45, 60mins or even longer. Make yourself tired, do some endurance. Rinse, repeat.
The HR number comes from Steve’s data of previous and current riders, hence its use as a starting point, not dogma.
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I’ve just started on a LT1 plan. About 45-60mins at 80% ftp for two to three days in a row mid week, then recovery day. It’s not ‘hard’ but not ‘easy’. You never feel like you can’t go longer but you know you’re doing work. I hope it gets me a lower HR for aerobic riding. I have been not using a HR so far but will strap one on in the future
Thanks for confirming what I thought @tshortt . These are the Zones that I that I have been using.
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It comes from Steve Neals coaching data.
It’s not a magic string or number like if (foobar > 1024) { do.stuff() }
But it is a population average of his athletes historically.
The podcasts Steve had been on are linked in the other topic I posted a link to. There’s also a few podcasts with Andrew Sellers out there too (Upside, and Sonja Looney podcast).
I did a Steve inspired tempo build last year and hit my best numbers in the spring. I didn’t have access to lactate or a Moxy so I could only estimate my balance point. I just kind of went off the middle of WKO5 zone 2 and kept HR in check. Personally, I never came close to Steve’s 83%. I’d only hit about 78% at the end of a 3x20minute tempo session. I built up to 4x20 which was enough for me.
After the tempo block, I did some VO2Max workouts and hit 3-5 minute PRs.
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Was doing some more research last night … found out Steve is really active on the Fast Talk forum. He says the HR number is between 78%-83% of max for most athletes.
I did a 3x30 yesterday at 80.5% of max HR and held steady for all 3 intervals. I rode all 3 at 83% of FTP.
My caveat, if it’s even applicable, is that I’m returning from a month long illness off the bike, so I am trying to “re”build to a certain level, not just build. In November I was hitting this HR at 250W … yesterday, I rode at 231W. Not sure that matters, it thought I would point it out. As always, YMMV. Good luck 
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Do you try to get the HR up quickly in the first interval and then keep it there? If I did that I’d probably be at threshold to start and then have to throttle back power to keep the HR in place.
I asked Steve about that on Fasttalk and he said to be conservative and just do what I was doing. Sometimes he’s vague if you haven’t done all the testing so I never 100% settled it in my mind.
I started this topic on fasttalk where Steve generously helped me a bit. He actually recommended I start the topic.
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No. I did the workout as Steve prescribed for me when I worked with him. I still have a catalog of custom TR workouts I built based on his instructions when he coached me, and I used that file. See below.
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I was reading it last night. Super interesting. Despite working with him for a year, we never really discussed why he was doing what he was doing … so I never captured much of his philosophy in general.
Also … the rider he talks about in that podcast who was aiming for a top 10 and finished 4th* is me 
*actually, I finished 3rd🤘
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Yep.
Also, for other reading this, we are summarizing stuff that Steve has said on podcasts, coaching advise he gives every rider (the tempo training), and following along on FastTalk (linked above).
Once you get into diet/nutrition, intervals/HIIT, using the Moxy, breathing, etc., it gets pretty personal and proprietary. So I feel comfortable talking about long tempo, some numbers and basic protocols from Steve because they are fairly “open-source” at this point.
Beyond that, one really should pay the man for his services or just ask on FastTalk. He’s a great resource.
I remember this. Made a big splash at the time here on the ole bike nerd forum 
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