While I understand the sentiment, I would submit that their discomfort has everything to do with the present zone 2 mania, regardless of how the latter might be defined. How else can you explain the fact that they could previously ride all day at a self selected effort without suffering from such issues?
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He did say all-day bikepacking so Iām thinking he was possibly on a different, more upright gravel bike. He also didnāt answer how long ago he was doing these all day rides.
A coach telling you that riding with pain is normal is the biggest flag here. He also said he maybe have tested (his FTP) low. How can he be working with a coach and not have a well tested FTP?
Iām wondering why heās torturing himself training for a 500km ride. If he canāt do 5 hours, then how is he going to do 500km (15-20 hours?)?
Iāve done enough coaching and lactate testing at this point to say you donāt need it because: if youāre performing better who cares what lactate does? Or anything else? Stuff like lactate can help describe the changes of performance, but you need to see the performance change before you even begin to assess why your measurement changed āunder the hoodā. Besides, the things that lactate measures are MUCH more accurately assessed by both performance and RPE. Get 3 experienced people a lactate test and youāll get 8 different threshold assessments.
I also understand the history of exercise physiology well enough (Cog will probably weigh in and correct me or elaborate) that I know all these measurements were originally meant to describe performance, or physiology germane to performance, rather than prescribe (sounds a lot like some training levels I know of) and further its study. Itās the height of ivory tower syndrome to think one thing is the lynchpin for a physiological system this complicatedā¦ unless you only look at it from the 10,000 foot view in which case you only have āstrengthā or āaerobicā. Thereās no guarantee (and usually it ends up as hamartia) that zooming in on changing one will not lead to the desired performance breakthrough. And thatās assuming your understanding is even correct to begin with, which is far from a given these days.
Sorry, didnāt mean to hijack the thread. Everyone here is giving pretty good advice. Get some shorts with a thick chamois, try different saddles, use your normal cadence, and try to vary the power and position a bit more and ride to feel as you had before, since if you can do a 200k day comfortably at a self selected cadence and pace without falling off the pace or feeling wrecked, you can probably do 500k easyā¦ because the best predictor of performance is performance itself (-Cog). You should talk to other people who do ultra/audax/etc and see what their solutions have been to similar issues. We coach quite a few and weāve never run across the issue so at the very least, just go back to what you were doing before. I usually say logistics is the make or break for ultra stuff, but comfort is usually a given and can trump everything else.
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I did an outside 20-minute effort up a climb, a TR Ramp test, and a TR 8-minute test. Coach thought the outside effort was most representative. Interestingly that figure was within 1W of TRās AI estimate for me after a couple years using its training plans.
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Same bike, same setup. These rides were happening up to start of August, when I started with the coach.
Obviously I wasnāt riding my ātrueā zone 3/4 all day - as you say thatās not possible - but the way the ānew, testedā zones3/4 feel, thatās how I was riding all day.
Seems like I was riding in what my coach now says is my Zone 3/4 going off my FTP. Hence why Iām struggling to believe the numbers. For me, the ānewā zone 3 feels super comfortable.
Coach has actually taken my hours down slightly from what I used to do, and programmed more rest days. She has me doing Z2 rides at 60-70% of FTP.
First thing is obviously to discuss with your coach. Also, ask yourself: Is it working? Can you ride longer, do you feel stronger? If your coach makes you ride less, and ride easier - do you need that? Have you had a habit of doing too much, or riding too hard (and then being too tired for your next ride or workout)? Is the workload set to change soon? Are there days with harder intervals that you need to be fresh for? Or, if not - maybe they are just not the right coach for you. If you donāt agree on training principles, and following their plan makes you dread riding your bike, maybe its time to find somebody else.
So based on your recent 20min test, your coach set ftp as 95%, and you look to see that most of your pre-coach rides were ridden at 75-105% of the new ftp? Thatās what youāre telling us with the mostly z3/z4.
How many hours per week were you riding and are riding now?
Lots of great answers here!
As a coach, I strongly believe minimizing discomfort and injuries should be a priority: Obviously missing workouts due to injuries isnāt productive, but I think feeling comfortable on the bike is a key factor in maintaining your motivation and desire to train (which, based on your original post, has taken a major hit). I typically ask my athletes about pain, injuries and discomfort a couple of times a week, as well as a day or two after every major workout or event.
While tempting, I wonāt judge your coachesā response to your discomfort based on what little I know of the situation, but I would strongly urge you to communicate to your coach that eliminating this discomfort is a non-negotiable and Iād suggest you include descriptions of your discomforts in your training notes that you share with your coach. This will keep the ādiscomfortā conversation going and often these notes provide a record which later helps you troubleshoot the underlying issue (for example, you could relate discomfort and cadence pretty easily with the right data).
Turning to potential solutions, Iād start by pointing out that once you are injured, it can be really difficult to determine what makes the injury feel better or worse - especially pain and discomfort related to the saddle. I would consider what I call an āactual rest weekā - just getting off the bike for a few days to clear your head and allow things to heal - then trying some of the suggestions here. If you really want to keep training during the āactual rest week,ā try a couple walk/run sessions or go hiking or do whatever youād find reinvigorating.
I didnt see anyone ask - did you switch to a thicker chamois for ādiatanceā? Sometimes they change pressure on the perineum. And did you try (or is it ātriā) a pair of triatholon shorts? And have you tried moving your saddle nose down a couple degrees? And going to a wider saddle? I am also a huge fan of the Specialized Mimic saddles - and specialized has a ātest rideā program where they allow you to return them if they dont work for you (or if you like, PM me and I can loan you a couple saddles to try).
At the risk of covering too many topics, Iād also point out there is a reasonable amount of evidence that taking ācoffeeā breaks during longer rides does not diminish the benefit of zone 2 training relative to continuous efforts. Some recent studies even suggest dividing a zone 2 ride into a morning and night session is as effective as a single long ride.
And lastly - cycling should be enjoyable! Find a group to ride with or make challenges for yourself - like finding a cafe or coffee stop a couple hours away and ride to it for breakfast. Apps such as Wander.earth are also great for gamifying zone 2 monotony.
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I have the same issue wrt zone 2 being boring but I put this down to my ADD. I ride purely for stimulating chemicals so Z2 to me is boring as hell.
The way I manage that is by doing most of it indoors (using fast outdoor rides as rewards).
Having something else stimulating at the same time (music/entertainment of some kind).
Also as a long term motivator, I want my z2 power to be high enough that z2 isnāt really slow at all. So thatās a motivator for me to increase power and ftp.
Iām doing polarised training btw so lots of z2 work.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I am reluctant to go back down the rabbit-hole of interfacing bike fits, saddles and shorts as I have spent the last 8 years getting to as near perfection as I can. A lot of heartache, travel to bikefitters and money has been channelled in that direction already and Iām not really sure I want to do this ultra enough to start again. Especially if I can expect my FTP to increase over training and hopefully pull me gradually out of this super low zone. I had another look at my zones, and it seems my coach had me doing the Z2 rides in a narrow range within the Zone, so mentally knowing I actually have another 8W to play with before I breach Z3 is helpful. I have a 5hr Z2 ride this weekend so will try the low cadence trick and report back.
I have made sure my coach is aware of the issues and will definitely consider finding another if I donāt feel their approach is going to suit me.
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I can appreciate that but you havenāt solved it if you are having this bum pain.
FWIW, I had a similar issue and the final solution was Assos shorts. They have this unique pad that basically has a reverse cutout and 12-15mm of padding at the sit bone area. They were a game changer for me.
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Any bike fit is temporary. Your body changes. Over 8y!
But 5hrs Z2 on a trainerā¦wow. I hope someone pays you for that 
- His OP at the top mentions outside rides of that length (see quote below).
- Did I miss their mention of doing similar rides inside on a trainer too?
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My own views are that the 2 primary goal of long rides are 1) duration, and 2) not riding so hard that it impacts ability to train next week and the weeks beyond. Not breaching z3 is not a goal unless Iāve proven it impacts the two primary goals.
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I donāt know you personally but just from the languaging, sounds like this goal is something you fantasized about but donāt care enough about to suffer through to achieve.
Iād find another thing to shoot for. even if you make this youāre gonna feel empty.
this is a personal goal for your own self. no one is ever gonna care that you did this. it wonāt benefit your life other than your own self-fullfillment.
as such Iād get another goal / challenge that you love and will fulfil you.
your coach also is a bad match for you. even if they are correct that itās normal to have pain, it should have been addressed better. that makes me not trust they will go the extra mile for you. (unless this is a coach that just sells templates and doesnāt really know you or something).
sry if iām wrong about everything.
would def sort out the bike fit. iām fairly new to this but I notice Iām much more comfy when Iām going harderā¦I have my bike seat angled and setback adjusted perfectly for going hardā¦when i go slow thereās more weight on my backside (and Iām on the slightly bigger side). I wonder if you need two positions? or two bikes or something. and make sure when they fit you youāre riding in zone 2
glgl
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No, youāre correct, long Z2 rides are all outside.
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Tried the low-cadence trick on the commute home last night. No PM but using HRM my experiments show it is much easier to keep HR down using slow cadence up hills vs clicking down a few gears and keeping spinning. Quite amazing. In addition, commutes are with a backpack so even more weight on the bum (same bike, saddle, etc) and it wasnāt as painful. Hopefully this is replicated at the weekend on my long outside ride.
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