Go over to the StrongFirst forum and debate it with that crowd? Picking up and moving heavy shit is strength work in my world.
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I get it if itās just common terminology, but That is resistance training to develop position specific endurance. Not āstrengthā training.
Paraphrasing Generically:
Strength = Peak Force Production
Hypertrophy = Muscle Size
Endurance = Able to do it over and over again
If youāre training aero position, thatās endurance, not strength.
And no, Iām not going to go check out some forum full of gym bros like itās a valid source of information when there are real resources like Andy Galpin (and others). Seriously, start with him if you havenāt, some of his physiology videos and playlists, or start with this Huberman Podcastā¦
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But youāll debate it on a bike forum 
These are generally accepted as the same
- strength training
- weight training
- resistance training
Thatās all Iām saying.
Then we can get into specific types of training, which youāve done above. Because āstrengthā is a word with many meanings (I opened two dictionaries for a laugh) we could be less ambiguous by rewriting what you wrote as:
- training to increase max force
- training to increase muscle size
- training to increase endurance = amount of time under load
Force, size, duration.
Thatās fine, itās a terminology thing. I do it too.
But, my point was responding to your comment about āStrengthā Training for being able to hold an aero position for hours. That is very specifically resistance training for muscular endurance, not strength.
And the best way to train that specifically is going to be specificity - go get in that position in your training and supplement it with your total body workout routine. Weights / resistance training isnāt whatās going to be the most important. Pretty much the same argument as training your FTP or TTE via weights vs. the bikeā¦
Maybe things change in your late fifties, or Iām just old and feeble LOL because seriously general conditioning allows me to hold the position longer and come home without feeling fatigue. And not feel it the next day. Without training in the position. Letās go with old and feeble LOL since Iām in my sixties now and taking my foot off the gas for 2 weeks sends my muscles spiraling backwards. In November, due to an injury I stopped lifting for 6 weeks. Big mistake. Never again.
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I quickly glanced through some of the other replies, and one other guy also mentioned Coach Chadās advice of keeping rest days as restful as possible, and spacing out your strength training from your TR rides on the same day by as many hours as possible: https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000087826-Integrating-Strength-Training#:~:text=Try%20to%20pair%20your%20weight,hard%20days%20with%20easy%20ones.
With that in mind, I prefer to do strength and core workouts in the early mornings Tues/Thur, then do my 1-1:30 when I get back from work. Iāve found that to work well, rotating in/out different exercises depending on the time of year (I skate ski quite a bit in the winter), I know what I can handle for a ābaselineā and adjust accordingly.
I gravitate towards spicy group road rides/races, gravel and MTB races but also like to have the fitness to ride centuries. Exercises like kettlebell swings, lunges, along with squats and deadlifts have dramatically improved any lower back and posterior chain issues Iāve had in the past. Based on what you mention at the end of your post, it sounds like you could also use some Bulgarian split squats and help with glute activation and recruitment. Good luck!
Not soreness for me as much as fatigue. First year doing str work seriously: Mon, Wed, Fri. Five days on TR workouts. The goblet squats (2x15) knock my legs out and have made some of the interval workouts a challenge. As May approaches Iām cutting back to 2x per week with far less stuff (doing about 10 things) and probably only 1x squats. Your post is timely for me because this has been on my mind. I donāt want to sacrifice my cycling for lifting. Weights, as much as Iāve enjoyed them, are there to supplement my riding. The rate Iām going they may interfere with it so I need to be conscious about my limits.
Good luck to you! Youāll make the right decisions.
Sounds like Iām struggling with the same thing. Iām currently right around 4w/kg, but would love to be higher. Iām working on approximately 8-10 hours per week on TR, and doing strength 2x/week. Two exercises:
Day 1:
Bench press (3 x 5 heavy sets)
Dead lift (1 heavy set), currently 305 pounds x 5 reps or so
Day 2:
Overhead press (3 x 5)
Squat (3 x 5, currently ~225 or so)
Iām finding that as I get up in weight (around 315-330 for my deadlift, 265 for my squats), my bike performance suffers and I canāt do my harder intervals in my TR plans.
Has anyone found that moving to lighter weight and 10-20 reps for the deadlift/squat effects this?
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You should periodize strength work the same way you periodize everything else in training. If the bike is your primary sport, then you should absolutely shift to lower weight, maybe higher rep scheme when the intensity picks up in your bike training, and probably focus on sport specific stuff rather than raw strength.
No way I would advise someone to do heavy squats and heavy deads year round while training on the bike. At some point you shift to things like lighter weight Bulgarian split squats or KB split squats, single leg deads, etc. Usually once you get into proper threshold training and then through race prep. Most importantly you shouldnāt be lifting to fatigue when training hard on the bike. Regardless of if itās heavy/low rep or lighter/high rep, if youāre going to high fatigue or close to failure and then trying to train hard on the bike, thatās a mistake.
The last recommendation I make for all of my athletes who strength train (and I recommend everyone does some strength training, at least for injury prevention and resilience), is try to pair it up with your interval days, ideally AFTER your intervals if the bike is your big thing. Weightlifting is still intensity, and if youāre doing 3 days of intervals and then 2 days of weight lifting, youāre gonna have a bad time eventually.
But again, a lot of it depends on your goals and what your priorities are. You canāt peak at all the things all at once.
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I agree with you because I tried to do what you say we shouldnāt 
Three days of strength training a week with one lift hard, one medium and one supposedly light but mostly medium (deadlift, squat and barbell row). Together with 1.5-2 hours on the bike every day and of that three tempo sessions. I can say that is too much. Technique in the lifts improved but the weight didnāt. And power on the bike slightly regressed.
Although I must disagree about riding first. That might be true in case of VO2Max or harder intervals. But for threshold or tempo I would do weights first. Last Saturday I had to lift after 3.5h SS session because of time constraints and that reminded me of a couple of years back where I religiously did bike/run first for the reasons you mention. No fun at all!
Then youāre lifting too heavy for the work on the bike that youāre doing. Simple as that. Youāre still trying to peak all the things at once. Itās fine if you donāt have any desire to be as good as you can be on the bike, but you are hamstringing your bike training by lifting first.
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Iām with Kurt. Hard, hard disagree for me. Only session where I would ever lift first is endurance, maybe some easy tempo. Unless itās stupid light and easy, lifting absolutely impacts any more difficult training session.
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Yup, the periodization thing is just tougher because most of the automated lifting apps seem to want to just have me keep on going up in weight, and Iām lazy. 
I also struggle with is what my āseasonā is since Iām signed up for bike races from late spring to fall, with varying importance placed on races during the year.
Finally, I also struggle with what I āshouldā be prioritizing. In college when I was competing in a sport, it was easy because my season was built around a spring racing season for 4 years. Now that Iām a middle aged bike āracer,ā ultimately my goal is maintaining strength/fitness for life. How to prioritize cycling/running/lifting around that isnāt clear to me.
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Those apps are lazy.
Go listen Joe Rogan interview Pavel Tsatsouline:
hopefully you will walk away with a better understanding of the different ways to program training.
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Itās tough, but for well-being and maintaining strength/muscle mass you donāt need to lift all that heavy. If it were me (and it has been in the past!!), I would focus on the bike if youāre racing and do light enough maintenance lifting to maintain muscle and injury resistance rather than trying to keep my squat at 2XX and deadlift at 3XX. Let those numbers go, and then hit them again during a 6-8 week max strength period in your offseason when all youāre doing is endurance riding.
Whenever you stop racing, then you can go lift the heavy stuff and try to PR your lifts. But again, if itās well-being and aging gracefully, you donāt even need to focus on that (nor would I) unless you really want to.
Thanks, thatās helpful. Out of curiosity, would a plan like this include a rep range more in the 10-20 range?
Yeah 10-15 probably, depends on the exercise and weight youāre working with, obviously.
Edit: The answer is more for @BCM than you. I agree that I was doing too much in the gym.
I understand what you are saying but I still prefer the weights first. It might not be optimal but it is certainly safer. Doing squats or deadlifts tired is difficult. While on the other hand I am able to ride 90 min SS right after strength session. I am less able to perform on the bike the day after strength session but that is to be expected.
I might speculate as to why I feel it is better that way (for me). I think that any serious cycling session reduces the glycogen and increases the waste products in the muscles. While on the other hand the strength sessions mostly cause neural fatigue and muscle damage which is more apparent in the days after.
I must add that I am an ectomorph which might have something to do with it. I am not explosive on the bike and I canāt exhaust myself in the gym (nor do I want to). And back to the optimal thing - that would be riding around 20 hours a week. I was flying when I could ride for that much. Anything else is suboptimal no matter how optimal are the workouts.
This is 100% fine, as long as itās a decision youāre making. Youāre making a decision to prioritize strength over your bike work. Which to an extent makes you stronger overall, and is probably a better decision in most facets of life, but probably making you slower on the bike. And this thread started with someone looking to raise his threshold and get faster on the bike.
Iām doing a decent amount of volume, probably 12-14 hours outside of recovery weeks right now, and will probably peak at 18-20 later this summer. But with all of that, Iām doing less than two hours of hard intervals right now. There are weeks itās around 1 hour total. This week, one of those is 50 minutes (2x25) at FTP. No way in hell I want strength before that or itās a failed workout. I can do it before endurance, but there are even hard tempo and SST workouts that strength training before will make miserableā¦
My approach - just go lighter on the squats and deadlifts. Sets of 10 with maybe 5-10 reps in reserve. Itās not about progressing strength for me, itās more about maintenance, and itās good for keeping my core, back, and shoulders happy.
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We agree in general I think. Just the specifics differ. I love compound lifts (although I am weak) and have a bad time on the bike now (asymmetry issues for a couple of years). This might mean I prefer strength training because I can see some progress while on the bike I know I need more training hours to see the difference.
I was clearly overdoing it as @kurt.braeckel noted. But could still manage the sweet spot sessions just fine. Looking at your situation with increasing training time and only a couple of hard intervals a week it makes only sense to have as much recovery before the intervals as possible. Trying to fit 3 strength sessions and three L1/SS days into a week gives you much less choice. Mind you, with 10 hours on the bike it was possible and form was increasing. But with better weather outside, more hours and no recovery week I realized it is too much.
I think your approach with scaling down the intensity with increased volume is needed and your body will tell you when it is adapted and you can increase it back again.
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