Fairly new to TR. Riding for 2 1/2 yrs. On TR for 3 months. Did an FTP test and yielded 222. During the course of my “Increase FTP” plan, AI wanted to bump me up to 227. I was hesitant so only increased it to 225. When I reached the “Specialty” phase, the first threshold workout was very hard. Next week was even harder with an all out effort standing on the pedals. Ended up with a headache. The third week workout was so hard that I couldn’t complete it without dropping the intensity. Oddly, it still increased my progression level to match the last workout despite not being able to complete it. I don’t think my FTP is where AI says. I’m considering moving back to at least 222
These are all pretty much the same number - I dont think FTP setting, or AI FTP detection, is the issue.
What PL levels were the threshold workouts you were struggling with?
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Are you fueling and getting enough sleep? You’re in the specialty phase of the block which is quite demanding. It’s time to check the other areas of training and make adjustments
I agree with this. If a threshold interval at 227 is an “all out, standing effort” then a threshold interval at 222 isn’t going to be as attainable as it should be.
You say you’ve been riding for 2.5 years. What’s that riding been? Has it been structured training or just riding? How are your sleep, recovery, nutrition, and life stress outside of training? Are you doing any training other than TR? Training doesn’t exist in a vacuum, so it can’t be troubleshooted in one.
Can you post a link to your calendar to see the big picture?
As mentioned it sounds like the effort is too hard. One “work around” is to not do these efforts in Erg mode and just see where you are. If you are below the line at what you feel is threshold effort so be it. You may get a “failed workout” survey and you can mark intensity. Your FTP and workouts will be adjusted from there.
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1st PL was 4.0, next week was 4.5, next was 4.7
It makes sense what you say that 222-227 isn’t much of a differences.
Silly question. If I post a link to my calendar, it can’t be messed with, right?
Also still wondering why TR bumped up my career Threshold PL to 4.7 even though I couldn’t complete it.
The calendar should be view only.
TR will give PL credit for certain failed workouts but I don’t recall an explanation of the methodology. I think they said it was up to their AI but could be wrong.
I will second the idea of trying it in standard mode instead of erg. That made a huge difference for me.
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My calendar
After struggling with the second week workout, I made sure I was well recovered and fueled for the third but it was just too much.
Your calendar is set to private so we can view it…
But from your description the levels of your workouts seem fairly stable, and so does your FTP, so I’m not really sure what’s going on.
If I were you I would reach out to TrainerRoad support and get their advice.
Were you able to see my calendar?
I reached out to TR after the second threshold workout. They basically said continue on and see how it goes.
There is one more important detail I left out. I’m 59 yrs old so I know recovery is a big deal especially since I’m still fairly new. Maybe the AI is not weighing that in enough and jumping up my progression levels quicker than it should? The 4.0 was very hard but a good workout. Going to 4.5 then 4.7 was too much.
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You should select master plan if you haven’t already as it gives you a bit less intensity. Which is recommended for masters athletes.
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The ftp.detection is to give you a fair benchmark to which to train to. Same discussion goes round about powermeters, trainers, platforms and what not. Stick to the system and be consistent.
Every test i did, 8 min, 20 min. , the whole hour, the ramp test, 4dp test, icu intervals detection and what not are all within range of each other for me and the people around me who train structured.
Purely anekdotal but the only test that gives me a fairly high estimate/ testresult is the ramptest (on every platform) this due to the anaerobic contribution. But not so much it gives me problems in consistency througout the the 3 week on 1 week recoverory cycle TR gives me.
Be consistent l, listen to your body, less is more. If you’ve done enough, your body will tell you. You need to take the rest. Not completing a workout is not a fail, it means you had enough.
95% of training is a highway that’s the same for every cyclist, the last 5% is where you do you. The system will adapt, ftp is just a benchmark, if you are consistent it will go up, but start with building up the foundation underneath it.
As mentioned, there are masterplans. There are factors as fueling your workouts, stress and sleep to consider. The hardest part for cyclist in general is to back down. Give yourself a break. You will recover and you will get better over time.
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There are some styles of work outside that I just struggle with regardless of progression levels. Work outs with big spikes that then back off to threshold for a sustained period are one. Feels like it is physiologically tougher than the work out level number suggests.
On the other hand there are some sweet spot work outs that are 8+ but because they teeter below actual threshold and also the recoveries are relatively high (but still way below threshold), the work out has a high score level despite being easier than some others at the same score.
Could you have a look at alternate workouts and choose one with perhaps more intervals of shorter time? Or choose one that you have previously done or liked the style of.
As per other posts there should be barely any difference between 222 and 227. A real coach would perhaps change the work outs to focus on something else, so if you are struggling on threshold (say) then move on to VO2 for a few weeks. Or if you’re struggling on VO2, do some sweet spot. I know they would put more intelligence into why they have changed workouts, but it really won’t hurt just to pick something else that you fancy if it keeps you consistently training.
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I’m not a fan of AI detection tools, but that aside, whether your FTP is 225 or 222, it isn’t going to matter much in the context of how TR uses Progression Levels to prescribe workouts. When you reset your FTP upward, it will also reset your PL’s downward at first. I assume this is to keep the workouts approximately equivalent so that you can continue to steadily progress through the levels. If your FTP changed a watt or 3, you probably wouldn’t even notice it during an interval.
I think the real issue might be that you’ve moved into Specialty phase, which is where the workouts get really hard to push you to your peak, and you’re not used to that, regardless of where your FTP is set. I’m about your age and I mostly focus on repeated Base and Build phases. I don’t race, and whenever I try to push myself too hard, I feel like pushing toward that Specialty peak takes more out of me than it’s worth. I’d rather stay consistent and slowly progress than seek out fast gains and risk burning out. (I’ve been there, it sucks).
You mentioned that you’re on your third week of Specialty and also your third month of using TR. Have you done any kind of Base training previously to focus on building up your foundation? It seems you’ve got to Speciality too fast. Using the house analogy, maybe you’re trying to put the roof on a house that doesn’t have a strong foundation and structure holding it all up?
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Question: Prior to TR, did you do weekly high intensity / VO2. workouts? If you did not do them regularly and consistently, my guess (assuming proper sleep, hydration, cooling, fuel) is that your body needs more recovery as it adjusts to doing high intensity / VO2 workouts on a regular basis. You can always do, 1) lower intensity by 5% for the workouts or 2) substitute out a lower PL and duration, increasing recovery time between high intensity sets.
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Your account’s privacy settings are preventing us from viewing your training calendar. But all these FTPs are virtually identical, and if 225ish W was doable with a PL of 4–5 at some point, I would suspect you are training too much and are not recovering fast enough.
How many hours do you sleep per night on average?
This probably means you did a ramp test & reached a max 1min power (Maximum Aerobic Power, or MAP) of about 395W. TR set your FTP to about 75% of that, which is too high. 75% is your ‘fractional utilization’ and different people have different fractional utilizations. For a good many it’s 75% but for some it can be 70% or even less.
Your fractional utilization is less than 75%. My advice is to set your FTP to 210 or 205.
For that 2nd week effort, when TR served you a post-workout survey you should have answered that it was an all out effort. Subsequent to that TR should have adapted your training program. For sure, your training plan should have been adapted following your third week. So something is wrong there.
Either way, your FTP is not 222, so knock about 10 watts off that. But, you definitely have my respect for gutting out those workouts.
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Hey there and welcome to the TR community!
Since I work for TR, I was able to check out your profile (if you’d like to adjust your account privacy settings, you can do so from your Account Settings page and adjust your “Account Privacy” options).
The big thing I notice when looking at your recent training is a lack of recovery weeks. It seems like you had two separate plans slated out back-to-back, and that you haven’t had much in the way of recovery since October. It looks like a lot of your pre-TR training from earlier this year also doesn’t have many (possibly any?) recovery weeks, either.
Seeing that, I don’t think this is an issue with FTP or Progression Levels, but with recovery. As a general rule, after every 3 weeks of training, you should take a recovery week where you lower the intensity and volume down from what a “normal” week looks like. You’ll ride less and easier, which allows you to “absorb” and recover from the previous 3 weeks’ training stress. Doing so allows your body to build itself back up stronger and it will allow you to return to your next block of training feeling refreshed and ready to get after it again. 
This next week on your TR Calendar looks to be a proper recovery week – I’d recommend avoiding any intense sessions since it has been a few months since your last one. Based on how you described how you’ve been feeling above, I might even recommend cutting out one or more of your rides this next week so you get an extra day fully off the bike to rest up. You could also use Workout Alternates to find Recovery/Endurance sessions that are shorter/less intense than what you’ve already got on there right now, as 1.5-hour sessions are on the longer end of what we’d typically call “Recovery.”
I also see you have a Solo Ride on there for Sunday – try to stay disciplined and keep it in zones 1 & 2 this week. It can be tough to keep it easy when you’re outside, but I promise your future self will find it worth it once you hit your next block of workouts!
Here are a couple of TR articles we have on recovery and recovery weeks if you’d like some more info:
Hope that helps guide you in the right direction. Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions!
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