Great video @GPLama! I definitely learned a lot!
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Does anyone have experience with the DT Swiss 54 tooth ratchet? I seem to remember there being concerns about durability with them.
Iāve had several 36T ratchets with zero maintenance issues but the engagement is lacking when compared to my old Chris Kings. I really only notice it on the mountain bike when climbing technical moves or stair steps.
I have the 54 on my MTB wheels, 36 on cross wheels and 18 on road. Not a huge difference to me between the 54 to the 36 but very noticeable from 18 to 36, massive from 18 to 54.
No difference from what I can tell regarding durability. the 54 ratchets are probably 3 years old, 36 are both 2 years old, 18 tooth ones are 5. None show any visible wear. I just regreased everything after the cross season came to an end and always have a good look at em. Interestingly, on my road wheels, I was using Dumonde hub oil instead of DT grease (its what I had at the time). Everyone swore I was going to destroy the ratchetsā¦theyve got at least 10k miles on them and still look brand new.
Id say the jump from 36 to 54 isnt worth the money unless you have a reason to replace them. 18 to 36 or 54 is quite an upgrade.
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Thanks for the info!
Iāve have the 54t ratchet for 17k+ kms. Road. Fair weather. No problems. Loud/Buzzy 
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I had the 54s on my fat bike, and liked them, but donāt ride it enough, so moved them to my roadie. That buzz is a giveaway for sure. Function wise, I think it āworksā better for a fat or mountain bike. Those bikes can catch the riders in a situation where quicker engagement would come in handy. On a road bike? Probably not so much.
It would make sense to expect more wear on the 54s, but havenāt seen it (yet, no debris, residue). I think they make them with good material, and if greased properly (their special grease), they will last a long time.
I canāt tell you how much I worry about engagement angle and backlash! Probably because, I have never even remotely worried about it. Until the DT Swiss marketing team decided it was something I needed to worry about, that is!
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True, but now you know what to buyā¦ 
Situation and priority dependent as always. As a 30+ year trials bike riderā¦ I have dealt with and focused on engagement angle since the late 90ās. The demands of trials riding are largely unique in the cycling world with the severe loading forces and need to apply massive power in sharp bursts. High level shock loading that can destroy chains and freehub / freewheel mechanisms like nothing else I have seen.
That all lead to the Chris King 72pt hubs being standard option WAY back when. White Industries Eno 72pt freewheel was the trials specific option when CK was not appropriate or preferred. Hope came around with their Pro hub too with less points but with impressive durability.
Fast forward to now and trials stepped to into the 108pt and 135pt range some time ago and the world of trials riders giggled a bit as MTB (and now roadies apparently) see the benefits to quicker engagement.
So how marginal are the gains weāre chasing with this? Imagine initiating a 100 RPM sprint from coasting using either a standard DT Swiss 350 hub with 32-points engagement, or an upgraded 54 point hub. All else being equal:
- at 100 rpm, it takes the unmodified 32-point ratchet at the very most* 19 ms to engage
- at that same RPM, an upgraded ratchet with 54 points of engagement will need at most 11 ms to engage
Thatās a difference of 8 ms (0.008 seconds). Is that a lot? At 40 mph, a rider with a 32-point hub will end up 6" (about a 1/5 of a wheel length) behind someone with a 54-point hub, assuming they are both neck and neck, started pedalling at the same time, riding at the same speed, in the same gear.
* my model assumes you start pedalling when you are as far from the next tooth as you can possibly be. In reality this is totally random, on average youāre most likely to be half that distance. So in fact my example is an overestimate of the time difference.
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Itās more important for mtb, or trials as mentioned above, where youāre at slower speed.
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I just very much like high engagement. To me itās just self-evidently better in feeling. Like, would you want your pedals to engage instantly or not? I donāt think it makes a difference but I like how it feels.
I donāt think your math is right (or at least, representative or comprehensive.) Iām confident I canāt tell 8ms and Iām positive I can easily feel the difference between the engagement in 18 and 54 hubs. At least for me itās far more about feel than time.
DT Swiss breaks it down here for MTB with regards to engagement and kickback.
I have RaceFace Vault (3 degrees) and DT Swiss 36 (10 degrees) and 54 (6.8 degrees).
Overall the DT 36 is fine. DT 54 is definitely better when a lot of ratcheting is required in techy trails and Climbs. I have felt pedal kickback in certain conditions descending. The RaceFace is my favorite overall with fast engagement band I never feel kickback. One scenario I feel the difference in engagement is when trying to match pedal power to rolling Climbs where the smaller angle seems to make it easier to catch up when trying to match rolling momentum.
I found the DTSwiss page to be an interesting read and had not considered the effect of engagement angle on kickback. Spoiler alert: thereās an effect on kickback and DT Swiss generally recommend a 36T ratchet since they are trying to balance engagement, weight and durability. I canāt help but wonder if they would recommend a higher engagement if they could maintain light weight and durability.
Now you can move on to the next noodle buster
I think high POE is definitely ābetterā in lower cadence disciplines or situations where you are intermittently pedaling (enduro, crit, CX, etc.)
My XC bike is like 21 POE and itās definitely a hindrance in rocky sections where I canāt always carry a full pedal stroke.
Flip side, I had the 36 POE on my old Tarmac and I never wished for more. Perfectly adequate for fondos and solo road adventures.
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There was a problem at first with the reliability of these, but that was rectified within a year. All new hubs and replacement ratchets with 54 have very good reliability now.
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