I’ve been playing around with it a little. Curious what others think.
I tried out Sufferfest & Xert before settling on TR last July. What I do like about Xert, is that after the trial is over, I can still upload 1 workout on a rolling 7 day period. Xert has the Ranking page that tracks the watts or W/Kg for various time frames. I’m a classic sprinter whose power falls off a cliff as the duration increases. So having the different metrics is nice way to see how my progression on TR is going. I also like how Xert estimates the FTP dynamically, but I realize it is just a snapshot. If you have a Garmin and an active Xert account, the IQ apps will track realtime the MPA in case you are on a group ride with sprints. But overall, I’m happy with TR as my paid account.
Just swinging back around after having tried Xert for a while. I find the program interesting, but the actual implementation disappointing. It’s like a beta product, buggy. The interface is extremely convoluted, but I eventually figured it out. I have little confidence in the FTP estimations. As you say, I found the numbers to be all over the place. The iPhone app seemed to be not in sync with the main web app, again, like a beta software. I’d love to see Trainerroad do something like the Xert “breakthroughs”. The nice thing about Xert (if it worked properly) is that you can use outdoor rides. An outdoor ride can give you a breakthrough. I’d love to see TR buy Xert and put some polish into it. Hopefully TrainNow will evolve to provide some of the feature/benefits promised by Xert.
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FWIW I didn’t find it buggy in 2016-2017, and paid for a subscription again in 2021 and not finding it buggy. Currently I’m only feeding it outside rides.
The FTP estimates were quite accurate for me back in 2016-2017 because of my focus on breakthrough efforts. The FTP estimates in 2021 are not so good, because my coach and I are working on establishing a proper base without an emphasis on breakthrough efforts. My signature decay is set to “No Decay - Training Load Matched” and I asked for help doing that after resubscribing earlier this year.
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WKO was consistently giving low FRC estimates - dFRC on workouts frequently going highly negative. Guess I wanted to see what Xert had to say, plus I am expecting to do more breakthrough style work going forward.
Right now WKO has 9.4kJ FRC and Xert 27.0 HIE. Now it seems like WKO is too low and Xert too high 
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I just do 20 min tests. Sometimes I adjust ftp in between tests by looking at what intervals.icu has to say.
I found it inconsistent and “trick.” Look at it the wrong way and the number goes sideways. Last week I was indoors using the Xert iPhone app. I felt really strong, buried the needle for a good 30 seconds, which indicated a substantial breakthrough, which I didn’t find surprising, as I hadn’t tested in a while. When finished, I checked the xert website, and the massive breakthrough was 2 watts. The graphical visualization of the ride showed what looked like only 3 second breakthrough, (power intersecting with MPA) even though the needle in the iphone app was buried for a good thirty seconds.
It sounds intuitive but it’s not really what’s about
I guess you are referring to TP? If so what about PP and HIE?
You are seeing your ride with the updated signature
Xert needs a bit of a deep dive for you to start understanding the concepts. I believe this is one of Xert problems, is not that easy for a newcomer to pickup.
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Can you explain precisely where the two views you refer to are? In other words, which views show the “post breakthrough” view of the workout, and which view shows the actual breakthrough of MPA?
Never mind, I did see the two views under Advanced MPA. You have hit the Previous button. So now i understand that. So why with the needle being buried is the breakthrough worth only 2 watts?
I think it was silver, HIE and TP. By the “needle” I mean the colored arc that sweeps from right to left as MPA descends and approaches your power output. I think the color is pink-ish. When the color disappears, you have had a breakthrough. My was gone for 30 seconds, so I expected my MPA to be well below my power output, and hence I expected a big FTP bump. After reading a few posts here though, I think I can reconstruct my misunderstanding. First, as it was explained to me, what I saw on the main activity curves was the new signature, not the old. Now I know how to view the actual breakthrough through the Advanced MPA tab. Second problem…I expected a big FTP bump, When I got only 2 watts, that together with what looked like a bogus activity curve, caused in me a lack of confidence in the app. I guess the “needle” being buried 30 seconds wasn’t really worth more than a couple of watts and a small increase in HIE. Unfortunately, I can’t go back and confirm all this, as I reset the app last week, and the silver breakthrough turned into a near breakthrough…Why the change I don’t understand. Again, not confidence inspiring.
I have recently unsubscribed from TR and I am using Xert exclusively now.
I think that whenever TR get ATA up and running for the masses I will try that but I have used Xert for 3 years now and I really enjoy using it.
For me the TP estimate has always matched my FTP. It may well be a self-fulfilling prophecy but I pace a FTP test based on my Xert TP. It is true that you don’t need to do a test but I like to validate every so often.
Xert gives you a sense of excitement wondering if you have a BT or not. If not how close were you. I love analysing a session afterwards, something I never did with a TR workout.
I do some of the workouts, sometimes using their player, sometimes exported to FulGaz or Zwift. I am not too fussed re the SMART workouts as I have never really seen them adjust that much.
I totally agree with the common statement that it is hard to understand, in a way I think that is what I like about the product. There is a small user group (unfortunately split between a FB group and an online forum) which is very helpful. I think being quite small and niche adds to the feel for me.
It is much cheaper than TR, although that is not my main reason for dropping TR. I have never completed a TR plan, never got more than halfway through the build section. Sometimes because I was burned out, sometimes because I didn’t fancy the long weekend workouts. With Xert I feel I can dip in whenever I want.
Finally they have introduced Continuous Improvement which I think will work well for me. That allows me to follow a roughly polarised methodology but with plenty of flexibility.
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Xert is brilliant - once you understand it!
It needs lots of data to be accurate, but once it has that I have found it to be bang on the money. It’s predicted what I’ve asked it to predict to with in a couple of watts. It’s a mindset shift to the dynamic update of TP and LTP.
Being able to export the workouts to Zwift is great, and the Garmin IQ data fields open up a whole new range of pacing strategies. There’s new takes on old school workouts - eg rather than 5 min intervals, deplete MPA to 80% for example.
Xert have a presence on this forum too…
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I think they actually like that no one really understands it. People constantly ask for a “new users guide” but it doesn’t appear. When you ask a question, you get answers like “hey, there are 25 sixty minute podcasts, go listen to those and you’ll find your answer”. I love the Garmin data fields. I love MPA and TP as training tools. The app is terrible though and so is the workout player. I just think it needs a massive re-think on both ease of entry and the UI. I’m very hopeful that TR-AT brings the best parts of Xert to an easy to use and user friendly platform.
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I haven’t been on that forum for a long while. I did ask a few questions early on, but soon realized the users have an almost religious devotion to the product. It’s been my experience that TR users are more practical about what programs they use. Besides, I didn’t really have many questions coming into this thread. I just wanted to see what TR users thought.
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Question. It seems that many of the Xert workouts have intervals above FTP that are widely spaced, with several minutes in between work intervals. Are the supra-threshold workouts that beneficial with the workouts that widely spaced? I don’t see many (if any) supra-threshold workouts in TR with work intervals that widely spaced.
Well, it seems like a lot of the “Openers” have intervals spread out so much as to provide less benefit.
Xert recommends Openers for me all the time…It’s a mainstay, a favorite of Xert.