I cite Seiler … ufff …
2 Likes
bugger…back to square 1 then… 
The more I read here the more I just think its ride steady or ride pretty hard or ride very hard (occasionally), and have some rest… 
6 Likes
I wonder if there is some disagreement with Altini and Bruce Rogers. I just listened to the latest That Triathlon Show podcast and Rogers says that the HRV4Training datalogger didn’t work for him personally.
If you read Roger’s paper there certainly are a lot of caveats, ‘further study needed’, etc. In the podcast, he says “ballpark” many times - that dfa a1 might get you close if you use the right equipment, protocol, and software analysis.
I’m not sure why Seiler has a dog in this fight.
And Coggan would say that LT1/VT1/etc. isn’t a physiological threshold at all.
So we are left with DFA a1 measuring sympathetic/parasympathetic, lactate tests measuring a rise in lactate, and gas exchange measuring VT1. They all measure different things and often correlate with a similar level of exercise intensity.
Or, one could do the talk test (free and easy)!
1 Like
So Coggan comes and reads this topic and this posts on twitter! 
1 Like
Maybe. He posted an interesting one yesterday (didn’t screen capture it), with a link to this paper:
1 Like
nope, not for me. Made me dispair. 1 W/kg?
Same.
A few of things:
- Word of the day - ephemeral. Love it.
- I’m still convinced Andrew Coggan is among us. Just so you know, I learn a lot from you Coggan. So, thank you. Even though you are grumpy sometimes.
- @WindWarrior So my interpretation of this tweet is: “the entire curve moves (with training)”. So take a number here, take a number there. Doesn’t matter. Take it with lactate, power, pace…again, however you want to do it. Just take it (or better yet, take a few and model the others), and watch them move. Where you decide to measure (along the curve) doesn’t matter. Am I reading it right?
4 Likes
Because power meters are one of the most precise things in sport. And the human body one of the least precise. Sucks.
1 Like
If you’re well-trained upper Zone 2 is not easyish. Especially when going for several hours. On several days per week.
1 Like
I’m never quite sure of grokking Dr Coggan’s key (implied) message, all I can say is he used the terms “any one estimate of threshold” and “predicting performance” in the same sentence 
No. And from a performance point-of-view I found riding too easy is not good. Cardio and metabolic (in the muscle) adaptations do not require a lot of intensity, but there is a floor, and there is a separate notion of pursuing performance gains within the bounds of recovery and doing hard workouts. All long standing coaching concepts. Turns out the Seiler ‘work harder at going easy’ was not some profound knowledge drop from the hallowed halls of academia. Did he say anything interesting in that Fast Talk podcast?
A user named oldbutnotdeadyet used to be a frequent poster on the forum before getting banned.
I think that was Coggan.
I don’t think Coggan is as hard headed and contrarian. I also don’t think Coggan would stalk and debate a coach like Kolie Moore for sport. It’s too bad the KM thread was a giant crap show because of oldbutnotdeadyet.
I don’t know if he was banned. I’ve read some of his old stuff on slowtwitch and it seemed like a lot of people trolling him rather than the other way around.
1 Like
I’m familiar…we all are. It wasn’t him. I agree with @AJS914. I jokingly said it was him one time. If I wasn’t the first, I was one of the first.
Realistically I think (like other prominent coaches, physio, and thought leaders), folks will private message or whatever and they will come on here and take a peak. This forum is public. My old coach used to do that when his name came up. No big deal.
I don’t say anything on here I wouldn’t say to someone in person, and I don’t consider asking questions and occasionally making light-hearted comments internet trolling. If someone does, I apologize and stop. This is my hobby and I’m an adult. I have fun learning and talking about this stuff. Judging from some of those old slowtwitch threads, I can see where a prominent figure like Coggan might want to stear clear or find another way to express their ideas.
3 Likes
No, definitely not. Was clearly lacking basic knowledge of physiology. Did not know how to read scientific papers. And did not have access to the fulltext of many papers. A clear sign that he was not AC or someone sitting in a university. obd just threw out abstracts from pubmed w/o reading the fulltext or understanding a lot. Pubmed robot.
3 Likes
I’d love coggan to reference a study published in the last 10 or even 20 years occasionally
2 Likes