Bmi is easily dismissed because it didn’t look at things like race or sex. It was based on a tiny population of people in a small region. But is applied to everyone without consideration of those things or as you noted muscle mass. It is then used to determine the health of a person.
I’m a 6’1 white guy and have had doctors dismiss my issues based purely on BMI, I can’t image the terrible care people in other groups have received because of the blinders it creates In the medical community Time for it to go.
Ps not a body builder, never played rugby, at 10% bodyfat overweight according to bmi…
Just a side thought here…i get the impression many people have a very hard time disassociating the physics concept of calories in / calories out, and counting calories as a tool to lose weight.
Additionally…I get the impression that, in how a lot of misinformation works…people think that because some personal method of doing something fails, the entire scientific structure behind it is invalid, which is just silly.
FYI - BMI is validated in many populations but is obviously not perfect. Its main limitation is that it actually tends to miss people who are at an unhealthy body weight/composition, and classifies them as at a healthy weight.
Alternate methods of measuring obesity increase the number of people labelled obese.
This is where I fall on the issue. Truth is whenever I have to cut weight, tracking my calories always gets the job done. Who cares if it’s not 100% accurate. I’m under no illusion that 2000 “calories” tracked in my food log is the actual calories I’m consuming. The process of tracking what I eat and seeing that rough estimate is more than enough to help me lose the weight. It provides accountability and a tangible goal each day.
I’ve tried a few different “methods” of losing weight and none work for me. The worst was “eat only when you’re hungry, stop when you’re full.” Bro I’m always hungry. I tried the Daily Quality Score method from Matt Fitzgerald’s Endurance Diet and I found myself eating more good foods to “cancel out” the bad foods. Problem is the eating more of anything puts on weight. Obviously this is an n=1 case, but CICO has been tried and true.
This level of trying to dissect CICO, reminds me of the hairsplitting over what an FTP “really” is. Who cares. It’s a tool.
In my experience and as someone who has been counting macros on and off since 2016/2017 the method does work.
You ask if I’ve noticed a difference when consuming whole foods versus more processed foods and really it’s hard to differentiate because CICO is just one way of measuring something. Like you, when I eat minimally processed foods I tend to have lower body weight, or I’m able to lose some excess body weight - the question I belive is the result of that a product of what we’ve consumed or is it also part of being more diligent in counting calories and staying active? It just so happens when I’m in a “dieting” phase and trying to be i a deficit, I’m also cooking more of my own foods and focusing on more nutrient dense and filling foods versus, calorie dense foods. For myself, I found it more sustainable with this approach than it is when I just focus on tasty, processed foods that fit withing my macros.
I tend to believe that the bigger trends and being consistent in whatever your individual approach is to eating to achieve your goals matter more than any specific method of doing it. You can weigh your food, you can weigh your body, or you can just look at yourself in the mirror, monitor how your clothes fit, and get in tune with your appetite and eat by feel. Whatever works for you is what you should do.
Well n=1, even the 25% error in some foods (can be up or down) over a week I still don’t believe is going to make or break a deficit.
Plus the studied and reported phenomenon that people usually tend to underreport calories eaten, forgetting the small bite here and there, rounding numbers…
One is super careful and report even the air he breathes? What a healthy approach to food.
Plus the incredible amount of error you have in counting calories out.
(We, as cyclist, are lucky with our power meter. And also there you have a lot of uncertainty.)
You end up with numbers that makes little sense.
The only measurement system with a fair grade of certainty is a scale, used morning after bathroom.
DEXA scan also.
All I can say is tracking calories in v calories out has worked for me, and I get expected results based on TDEE estimates and my fitness pal. Is it a healthy relationship with food - I don’t know, I generally track and move on. It doesn’t impact my choices on social occasions. I’ll take a potentially unhealthy relationship with food rather than the definitely unhealthy waistline that accompanied me when I was 120kg plus!
Yea. Heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, etc, is a heck of a lot bigger concern than having an “unhealthy relationship.” One is a hell of a lot more likely to kill you. A little perspective helps.
and using extremes as examples is a fair way to discuss.
like anorexya is nothing, right?
What I’m saying is that there are a lot of steps before counting obsessivly calories.
And if you are not obsessed while counting calories, then you are literaly counting nothing.
If for anyone works tough, please go ahead. I do it time to time just to get a feeling of portion sizes.
The point was that for a lot of people, the “unhealthy relationship” with food is more likely to be over eating than under eating. So if counting calories gets you to eat the correct amount but have a slightly unhealthy relationship with food then it’s a net benefit. Though I’d argue that counting calories isn’t inherently an unhealthy relationship with food as long as you aren’t (like you implied) using it to see the lowest number possible on the scale or in your food log.
This is obviously untrue. Your calorie intake over an average several days matters more than every single bite you eat, so if you miss a thing here or there or even miss a whole day it doesn’t mess with the averages too much.
Also, just like you said, from the times I’ve counted calories what helped me the most wasn’t even those times of counting, it was the education that gave me to then intuitively have an idea of my intake during times I’m not counting.
i didn’t see it mentioned but as athletes getting the calorie count wrong (too little) just reduces NEAT and other extra energy usage by the body. I’m working iwth a dietician and its quite surprising how much food i still have to eat. And deficits only 3 days a week.
When I pay attention, I can tell that I may sometimes move less and be less energetic during the day when in a deficit. It’s just one of the signs…this is probably why my last cut was so effective because not only was I diligent in not snacking - I also added a good amount of walking into the day to keep my activity to compensate for less NEAT.
I’d be curious to hear about the approach your dietician is helping you take and what your goals are if you wouldn’t mind sharing. A good place to share it would be on this thread if you are so inclined. Weight loss accountability buddy or thread discussion
I know, my answer was direct to compare “unhealthy relationship” to Heart deases, diabetes (while calling for better perspective)…which was not what I was referring to.
This is obviously untrue. Your calorie intake over an average several days matters more than every single bite you eat, so if you miss a thing here or there or even miss a whole day it doesn’t mess with the averages too much.
You cannot do a average intake if you miss things and underreport others.
Point is that then you are better served with other systems.
Also Calories Counting put stress only on calories, no mention to their quality.
Also, just like you said, from the times I’ve counted calories what helped me the most wasn’t even those times of counting, it was the education that gave me to then intuitively have an idea of my intake during times I’m not counting.
And I confirm it and agree fully with you.
But, that is completely different from the general claim you can here almost everywhere that CICO is law and “it’s simple thermodynamcs baby”. Which I believe is a bad claim.
A good claim to me is the famous: Eat food, Not too much, Mostly plants
And work from there.
