I am relatively new to TrainerRoad and am, in fact, at the end of my first WO plan series. I did reasonbly well and improved over the past 2 months. In fact, my FTP got bumped up last week by +4 to 146 (and that is good enough for me). For most WOs, I can keep at/above interval’s target power level and consistently have average cadence of 85 - 95 rpm. So, all was good !!
Last weekend I went on my first ride. It was ~3.5 hours, ~50 miles long and had a couple of steep(er) gradients of 4-6 degrees, and winds of about 5-8 mph. It was a regular/good biking day. I did not expect wonders as a result of my TrainerRoad WO plans. However, I was net-disappointed. My average power was 82 W, average cadence was 71, my speed was 12.9 mph, I was mostly at ~ 70-80% of FTP and my HR was normal.
When I ended my season last year, my average power was ~105 W, average cadence was ~82, my speed was 15 mph. Interestingly, at about the same time last Spring (April 2024), my stats were better - average power was high 80’s W, average cadence was mid 70s, my speed was high 13s mph.
BTW, I do understand that when outdoors I will face wind resistence/drag, and the cadence is lower because of traffic/stoppages etc.
I would appreciate your honest response as I was thinking of using TR throughout the year to improve my performance. However, based on my biking stats last weekend, I am now not 100% sure of the true value of TR. Any thoughts, any tips, etc.
I’d somehow never have gotten the idea to compare my y2y performance with average power, average cadence and speed.
Is this road cycling? On the same course as last year at least?
Road cycling. Not same route; I was comparing general road bike performance: 1) TR indoor standdalone 2) Outdoor - TR vs, Last weekend Outdoor 3) Outdoor – Last Weekend Outdoor vs Last Year Outdoor (Y2Y)
How you perform on indoor workouts won’t translate to an equivalent performance on an outdoor ride. But, you may see improvements over time, especially if you’re following a plan through full Base, Build and Specialty phases. So, it may not be fair to compare one outdoor ride just yet. Perhaps you can compare several rides over this season (maybe go do one every week instead of the indoor workout) and see if there’s improvement.
There could also be things around pacing. You said your HR was “normal.” Could you have gone harder at times? Your average cadence looked a little low. Did you coast a lot? Maybe you left some speed on the table. Are you eating/drinking enough over 50 miles?
How often/much were you riding last year compared to this year? Is your training volume the same?
The other question is whether your FTP might actually be better than you think. It may be worth doing the ramp test once in a while to see if you can go harder than TR AI thinks you can.
Going based on your numbers (high 80’s power) even 89 watt average is only 61% of your 146 FTP, so I don’t see where you’re stating that you were mostly riding at 70-80% FTP.
Forget about speed, wind, etc., when trying to compare performance improvements on solo efforts. Also, it’s hard to really compare anything other than “100% effort” because anything less then becomes subjective to your feels in comparison of the two. The exception to comparing speed might be on identical courses with identical wind and assume you’re working on aero improvements. Seems mostly irrelevant here.
With all that in mind, I think there’s either too much missing information you haven’t shared the specifics of or didn’t collect, to determine improvements.
Was this last weekends ride 100% or at least like, 95%+ effort? If not, there’s only so much performance (real performance, aside from subjective feelings) that you can gauge.
I did leave some speed on the table as I was too focused on keeping my up cadence that I dropped to lower gears and stayed unwittingly. And so, with the coasting and lower gear, I perhaps lost out on both (speed and cadence)
True about FTP. I think I should do another ramp test when I’m done with my first planned-series (3 more to go). Like last year, I should continue on higher gears (50x13 or 50x15; and work up cadence) rather than go to mid-gears (and compromise speed)
Lastly, the combo of timed high-intensity (indoor) with TR might have impacted my untimed relatively lower-intensity (outdoor) … both in terms of approach and weariness. Perhaps, I should only do 2 outdoors a week and 1 TR indoor to balance it out (initially).
I’ve got a couple of things that I think are worth sharing here.
First, when looking to assess your fitness, it’s really better to use the same method each time to ensure that you’re comparing similar data – apples to apples if you will. A 3.5-hour-long unstructured outside ride in comparison to another unstructured outside ride isn’t going to help you compare your fitness. There are far too many variables at play here.
If you want to assess your fitness outside, I’d recommend finding a safe place where you can perform an 8 or 20-minute test. This will ensure that you’re really pushing yourself for the entirety of the assessment and give you a strict format to follow which will make comparing one effort to another really straightforward. Longer efforts at lower percentages of FTP generally aren’t good for fitness assessments.
When looking at the data after a fitness assessment, I’d first focus on power, then consider heart rate. Speed and cadence aren’t important here. What matters is how much work you were able to do (power), and sometimes it helps to compare that to how hard your body was working (heart rate,) but power is the only true objective form of data that will really determine your fitness when taking a fitness test.
As to whether or not TrainerRoad is helping you get objectively faster, your FTP is up almost 10% since the start of the year. I’d say that’s a good sign!
Let me know if this all makes sense and if you have any questions for me. It’s super important for us that you see the value in TR, and sometimes it can be tricky to read through all the data.
If, one day, you go out on a long ride and don’t feel great, that doesn’t mean that your fitness isn’t improving, though. We all have our good days and bad days, and it’s important to focus on the averages and trends rather than single individual performances. That’s why we created AI FTP Detection. We know that fitness assessments aren’t always good at truly estimating your fitness since they’re based on a really small piece of data rather than a much larger chunk.
Stay in touch and best of luck with your training!
I believe you high-lighted some very good points - the need for apples-to-apples comparison and the importance of POWER over Cadence/Speed at normal HR workout range.
I reached out to TR forum to understand where/what I did wrong, what I need to correct and what I should expect. I like TR and its structured plan and feedback. It is simple and direct without much needless fanfare.
On further reflection I realize that these could have been some of the root-causes:
I used a different bike than the one I use with TR. The one I use for TR is perfectly fitted while the one I used last weekend was a bit low (133 degrees vs. 140-145 degrees)
I focused a LOT on Cadence over power & speed … unlike last year (comparison) when I focused less on Cadence. Last year I rode mostly in 50x13 through 50x17 gear ratios (unless I had a greater than normal gradient of 5-6 degrees). Last weekend I rode mostly at 50x21 -50x25 in order to maintain cadence. But the problem was (might have been) that I could not sustain high cadence of 95-100 rpm on a continuous basis and this had negative fallout effect on everthing downstream - cadence, speed and power.
Lastly, because of morning cold weather (35 degrees F) I was ovre-dressed and this might have contributed to load as well as overheating when the temperature went up to low-60 by afternoon.
Questions:
While on TR should I stick to target-power at highest gear ratio (and forget about cadence by and large). This is what I normally do
I guess I should raise my seat for the bike I used last week (no question here)
Go into lower gear at higher cadence (sacrificing torque-power and speed) ONLY when on a steep gradient
Reduce TR workouts to 2 per week and replace last/3rd. WO with outdoor weekend ride. Thoughts? If so, in my next TR recommended WO series, what should I set my objective as and how can I adjust it such that the heavy TR-WO load is (say) on Tuesday and lighter TR-WO load is on Thursday (to ease into weekend outdoor WO).
I’m glad you’re finding some help on the forum! That’s why it’s here!
Regarding your questions:
When using TR in ERG mode (assuming that’s what you’re referencing), I usually recommend using a low gear (something like 34x24 on 11 speed or 34x27 on 12 speed when using a 50/34 crank. This keeps the flywheel speed low, which allows it to be more reactive. At that point, focus on smooth, consistent cadence – whatever suits your pedaling style (I usually end up between 89-94 RPM).
Yeah, ensuring you have a good bike fit is actually really important!
I think that pedaling efficiency through cadence and torque balance is always important. You’ll likely find a balance that works for you, and if that’s the most efficient way for you to pedal, I wouldn’t limit it only to climbs or flats. Sometimes your cadence might drop when you aren’t pedaling as hard, and that’s totally fine, but when it really counts, I’d just let your legs find the rhythm that works for them and stick with it. Most cyclists are leaning towards “higher” cadences nowadays..
It looks like you’re finishing up your current training plan this week. When you build a new one with Plan Builder, you’ll be able to set your schedule however you’d like. You can switch one of your workouts to be a “Solo” or “Group” ride, or make it an Outside Workout if you’re looking to have some direction/structure regarding what type of stimulus we recommend for that day. Additionally, you can switch your schedule from three hard workouts a week down to two if you want Thursday’s workout to be easy.
Thank you for your detailed and constructive response to my questions.
Firsrly, I always use TR with ERG mode ON.
I normally use TR with 50x13 (=3.85) gear-ratio and am able to mostly-always stay for all WO intervals at target level and stay at cadenece of ~90 rpm … except when I did Ochiltree 2 weeks ago and at a time when I was just recoverring from extended flu
At your recommended 34x24 (= 1.42) I am sure I will find it easy and keep my cadence steady, smooth and consistent. However, I wonder how my TR reported interval-power will show up as the cadence part will be reduced by more than 50% … unless I start applying more torque to the pedal to compensate for cadence loss.
My other question – and I have still not figured it out – is if I get used to 34 x 24 (with TR) and continue with the same gear ratio when outside/outdoor, then my cadence will continue to be high but my speed will come down to 10 mph or lower. And if 34 x 24 is the gear-ratio I will normally ride outdoors, then I may run out of gears when I encounter gradients of of over 10-degrees. This seems to indicate that my gear-ratio indoors (with TR; 34 x 24) ought to be different from gear-ratio outdoors (50 x 13 to 50 x 17) on flat, smooth terrain.
Is my analysis and thinking correct?
I would appreciate your candid feedback as my objective is to:
Imrove outdoor performance primarily by way of improved steady-state power (of 140 watts)
Improve outdoor cadence where I can maintain ~85+ rpm in steady-state and rev-upto 100 rpm on gradients of ~6 degrees. (Averge cadence may be lower due to ourdoor coasting, traffic and signals)
develop performance/skills indoors with TR (according to TR recommended WO plan) and execute outdoors (average power: 125-140 watts, average cadence: 90-100 rpm, average speed: 16-18 mph, averge distance: 60 - 90 miles )
FYI (facts/reality check):
Last year I did a 100 miles in a day - average speed: 15 mph, average power: 90 W, average cadence 72 rpm, average HR: 131 bpm
I’ve been biking only for the past 3 years (started during late-COVID period)
Last year I did 3,000+ miles
I am looking to use TR strategically to improve my overall performance. I wish to make sure that I am leveraging TR appropriately in order to improve performance outdoors. Hence my questions.
When in ERG mode, your gearing doesn’t matter. The trainer will simply apply the resistance needed to result in the power production that matches the target. Nothing will change in terms of your cadence either. ERG is all resistance and power-based, so regardless of the gear you’re in, you should still hit your power target with the same cadence. As your cadence changes, the trainer will adjust the resistance to compensate. Essentially, you just pedal the bike however you want, and the trainer will adjust the resistance for you.
What does change as you shift gears is the flywheel speed on your trainer. When the flywheel speed gets too high, momentum starts to affect the feel of the resistance, and it almost generates a sensation of pedaling downhill. Using a lower gear, such as 34x24 (or something similar that generates a straight chainline when in the 34t chainring) keeps the flywheel speed lower, which makes the resistance more well-rounded to your entire pedal stroke, which certainly has benefits and feels way better to me.
Additionally, I’ve seen instances where you’ve hit a wattage floor in your workouts in the past (where the power to turn over the crank is higher than the power target, which is common during rest intervals), and using a lower gear will fix that as well.
Structured interval training in ERG mode will certainly help you improve your fitness. I’ve done 99% of all my workouts this way over the past 5 years and have seen great results and enjoyed the process along the way.
I followed your instructions (implicitly ) in today’s TR workout @34x25 gear ratio (closest). I noticed/realized the point you were making that the resistive-power adjusts itself when in ERG mode and that the cadence (88) is smoothened out and so was my HR. It made paddling and power focus management much easier.
I have two more WOs to complete in my current TR WO planned series which I plan to complete @34x23 GR. I will then continue on with my next planned WO series on TR.
Based on all that you have explained, it seems that gearing on indoor TR is quite different from gearing outdoor when road-biking. And that seems to have been the fundamental mistake I made last week … using the same gear ratio outdoors.
) in today’s TR workout