It’s all quite simple really. The “FTP” in the categories is 95% of the best 20 minute w/kg for the race. It doesn’t matter what your FTP is in real life, if you go over the limit for during the race on Zwift you have either entered the wrong category, or you should be DQ’d. Someone that’s able to have a 95% of 20 min best effort during a Zwift race of 3.5 w/kg has no place in a cat C race.
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Exactly!!! You say yourself that you’ve never done any racing on Zwift, and you have shown that you don’t understand how the category system actually works. Some of us do, and actually agree that it is flawed. However, it’s what we have got to work with. As the thread title says, the problem (at the moment) is with people.
Even more random and pointless than I ever would have though. How can that possible make sense. So some of the people ‘Cheating’ are doing so without knowing or intending too. I don’t race on Zwift so I don’t really care, never will, well not to race (maybe take part, for a laugh)
Not many by the sound of it, I have looked it to in though and that was my understanding and I bet the majority.
They aren’t random or pointless at all. The people entering the wrong category, for the most part, know exactly what they are doing. The majority DO understand the category boundaries. There has to be a cut off somewhere, and this is the way they do it. Many folk that race seriously (and there are lots of legitimate reasons for doing so) wish they would move towards a results based category system rather than the “FTP” system we currently have.
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Err, where are these rules? How do you know this before the event? What if you have a ‘breakthrough’ race and PB, you should be DQ’d??? Doesn’t seem right.
I’ll agree to disagree.
That’s fair enough. But maybe if you spent a little more time trying to understand (which you will probably not do), you’d appreciate why the genuine C cat racers would be annoyed at folk winning races at 3.5w/kg.
I understand that, particularly if the numbers made sense. I thought I had put enough time into understanding the Cats but obvs not. I genuinely would like to understand it. Still goes back to my original point though that 180w @ ~61.5kgs isn’t going to be high up in the order even taking the ‘real’ cheats and mistaken w/kg contenders out.
What’s the point attacking the Zwift platform. It’s great fun and offers something TrainerRoad doesn’t: fun and connectivity. Who wants to stare at a graph out of the 80 while you can have fun socially and do the same workout. Btw who needs 1500+ workouts?
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I used to do TR workouts while on Zwift. Now do the same but with Xert workouts. The social component of Zwift is just so motivating!
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I’m really surprised how primitive the Zwift world still is about rankings/ratings. There is a ton of precedent for how to handle things like this, from games like chess. In those competitions, you gain rating points when you beat someone, and lose points when they beat you. And the points you gain/lose are scaled based on how much stronger/weaker the opponent was before the match. E.g. applying the Glicko system Glicko rating system - Wikipedia after each race, for each pair of race participants.
There is some math involved, but over time, each racer would find that they are evenly matched with other racers at the same rating.
I’m shocked ZwiftPower hasn’t done this yet. They have the data to make it happen. But they appear to be going a different direction with their ranking system.
I started a thread about this on ZP a while ago, but the discussion didn’t give me any confidence that cyclists are ready to break from tradition. https://zwiftpower.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5341 for the curious.
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Nothing wrong with Zwift, everyone needs to find their own motivation to ride the trainer. Zwift did nothing for me after using it for 3+ months, I’d rather listen to music or watch YouTube videos and learn stuff.
Back to the original post… a local triathlete was killing it in Zwift races a year ago, averaging over 300W and winning B races. He took that outside and podium’d real lfe races. As @Bbt67 pointed out, on a flat course forget W/kg and focus on the FTP of 185. I’m bigger guy, currently at 2.3 W/kg which is what, D category? But I could put out close to 250W for 25 minutes which would likely put me much higher up the leaderboard on the City Crit Race in C category.
It seems odd to use W/kg on Zwift flat races, its like trying to use W/kg to predict results on the pro Spring Classics.
Ride on! 
The rules are usually posted in the event description when you sign up.
There is some flexibility for personal breakthrough. You could upgrade to a new category during a race without being disqualified on zwift power. However, there is a maximum threshold at which point you are automatically DQed. It is significantly over the category threshold though.
Lots of sandbagging in zwift. Try one of these put on by some of my Fell Swoop team mates and the Washington State Bicycle Association. FTP’s and mandatory upgrades in categories are very closely monitored by the organizers. There is a USA East series and a USA West series. New series starts next Wednesday and runs each Wednesday night for 9 weeks. If you win the series you could be the lucky recipient of a rubber chicken!!!
Information here:
https://twd415.wixsite.com/sweatfest
How do they figure the 2.5-3.2 w/kg? Does it apply to ftp /hour power or to the race avg? I’m assuming you can hold higher w/kg in a 20 min race than vs your ftp?
I agree with this entirely.
I’m the first to admit that I’m a massive sandbagger in zwift. I just sign up for whichever category I feel like doing on a particular day.
However, I’d love if they could design an in game ranking system based on who you’ve previously competed against. Similar to how Crossresults work in real life.
After they designed their automated ranking system, they could then use it to force everyone into their respective categories for the races.
I think this would make things much more interesting. As currently, the problem is when you’re racing D, C, or B races in Zwift you have no idea who is actually in your category and who’s going to get DQed at a later point. It ruins the racing when you’re trying to keep up with someone in the C grade who’s going to end up averaging over 4 w/kg and get DQed on ZwiftPower when everything is said and done.
It’s just really astonishing to me with how much money they have that they continue to sink funds into different maps but haven’t made any meaningful changes in the game play for years. Zwift could be really fun if they implemented proper categories.
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My whole career is based on people insisting their “thing” is new, different and everything must be done from scratch. I gave up telling them after about ten years!
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it, etc.
I agree with you here.
The Zwift races are not perfect by any means but if you use them purely as a way to push yourself for the duration then they are brilliant.
Don’t worry about the final result but look at your own stats and try to improve those.
You won’t find many other ways to push yourself to the limits with other indoor training platforms.
Until Zwift enforce Cat entry levels based on past performance then there will always be sandbaggers but don’t let them put you off enjoying the races for what they are.
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Hi Fasttk9dad,
you say zwiftpower do the results… what do you mean by that… how do they police it? I’m on Zwiftpower, but I’m not sure how that would answer OP#s question… (i.e. you join CatC and then cannot keep up because the CatC racers are not doing the w/kg it says they should?
And a 4.5w/kg triathlete who’s new to racing should be in cat 5, that’s not sandbagging, it’s what cat 5 is for.
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