There’s a marked difference between the objectives of categories in real life vs virtual one. In the former, the issue of handling in a pack puts your example triathlete in Cat 5 because he/she needs to demonstrate the ability to manage that 4.5W/kg in close proximity with other scary people. In the latter, there is no such issue; the only problem categories are trying to solve is creating competitive groups.
Right. As of now, with no real progression system and only the pure W/KG category system, there is no need for people to “work from the bottom” like we do in real life.
That can (and probably should) change if/when Zwift institutes a proper scoring and ranking system. That is basically about earning “points” (or whatever marker is appropriate) in relation to other competitors. It’s the same approach applied in many other virtual racing and competitive venues (not to mention most competitive cycling in the real world), so it should be applied here as well.
Those points and rankings should set rider ability and control access to events as a result (again, just like most real life cycling). True, that basic handling skill is not an issue in virtual cycling, but we can still look to the process of having riders compete and work their way up the ladder (and restrict them from lower rungs as appropriate).
Nothing is perfect and the ranking is open for issues too. But there needs to be some basic control to event access applied, if Zwift has any real intentions to making “racing” a thing that is not manipulated and distrusted at the level we see now.
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Wow, I thought my 182 max was low. Good reminder that HR is always relative.
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For me Zwift has its place. I race the B’s and have worked my way up over the last couple of years. I like my TR but I find that I need to mix it up sometimes. That’s when I find a race to replace my TR workout. Its a game though, and people cheat, but I still find it fun and a great way to mix up training. In the end, you usually end up in a group with riders putting out similar power and it still feels like a race to me. And I push myself and work hard.
Zwift does not seem care about cheaters unfortunately. Even blatant cheaters are ignored. ZwiftPower makes a good effort to patrol. Everyone racing on Zwift does not sign up for ZwiftPower though and I’ve seen estimates as low 50-60 percent participation.
Even if you’re new to Zwift give it some time. It a game and you have to learn how to “play” for sure. I find it a great compliment to my TR regimen.
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you have to learn how to “play” for sure
You totally do. There is a learning curve like any other game. I did probably 30 Zwift races last winter as a mid-B and I don’t get why people complain when they ride a constant 3.5 w/kg for 30 mins then get dropped.
I actually found Zwift races replicated real crits pretty well because of the huge surges. The flat courses usually start really hard and then have a series of “selections” where you have to go really hard to stay with the group or you get dropped. I went from pack finishes to top 5s and top 3s at the same FTP just from learning how to do the races.
And as far cheating goes, the most frustrating experiences I had were not with suspected cheaters but with power dropouts in the middle of races on a hard effort to stay with a group 
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I did a couple of races recently, 32kms flat race, entered A accidentally. Got smoked, finished last by 54secs, 2nd in B. The 1st in B was 177w@3.4w,
Second race, Last 6 mins I took a 4km flyer, went off the back and hit them at 600w, at 393w for 5mins, caught and hit out at 400m, finished 10th. Dont really care about the results its the training that matters.
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Here’s the newest ZwiftInsider post on enforcing categories. It’s a follow up to the article posted earlier in this thread.
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Sounds like I should really pay more attention to zwiftpower. Is there a great into or overview video you would recommend?
I for one enjoy the Zwift races and I often substitute a hard training session for a race. I do chuckle to myself at times when you see some of the numbers people apparently make…just look at the Strava KOMs as an example.
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Create a ZwiftPower account. Log into your Zwift account and opt-in to ZP. They’ll need permission to access you Zwift events. I think that’s it.
Did a Crit Race today, category D. This has been covered already but it was a good example of how racing in the lower divisions is frustrating.
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Averaged 241 W, 2.5 W/kg. Went full gas for most of the race and did my best to stay in or near the lead group. Worked the draft and used every tactic I know to stay with the leaders. Got dropped a couple times and could not find an extra fear to close the gap. Even forgot I had a water bottle like a real Crit.
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Finished 20th out of 62. Respectable. But wait, 15 of top 20 averaged 3.0W/kg or more. Two people averaged >4.0W/kg. Winner at 4.6W/kg and no HR data. No one above me averaged less than 2.8W/kg and I finished with those racers. I know there would be a couple people in the wrong category but I did not expect it to be 1/3 of the race.
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Checked Zwift Power. First. Gold medal. Yeah. But it didn’t feel like a win, even a virtual win. It would have been much more enjoyable to race only people in the same category and use tactics and fitness. What it almost felt like was a 20 minute FTP test.
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Solution - keep using TR, get faster and race in higher divisions with less sandbagging. Or Zwift can turn on a switch and only allow you to enter races in your category or above. On to Antelope tomorrow.
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- Unless you plan to live and race in the A group, you may want to change that assumption.
As a 3.8+ w/kg rider (256w FTP @ 66kg) theoretically towards the top half of the B group rating, I get destroyed by “B” riders and a disappointing number of “C” riders that catch up to or exceed what I do in the races. I’ve been in the top half of the B standings in the end, when more than one group of “C” riders closed a several minute start stagger, or worse when I get dropped from an even start setup where "C"s hang with the A’s for the deciding splits.
I do have the issue of having a decent w/kg, but low pure power compared to larger riders, so I suffer more on the flatter and even rolling events. It takes the climbs up the KOM’s before I can really hang where it might seem I should be in the category.
Point being, that you can expect to get schooled by many riders from any and all categories no matter where you are… unless you occupy the rare air of the “real A” riders. Those people have different conditions with no real sand bagging possible since they are in the top rung (ignoring pros and the like).
There has been enough chatter on this issue, and with Zwift’s clear intentions to make racing a priority (counter to how they handled it for the for the first 3 years… ignoring it and leaving it to groups like ZwiftPower to regulate). They have LOTS to fix, but I can’t see them ignoring this for much longer considering their clear aspirations.
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You’re proving the point that Zwiftpower, while being a nice endeavor, is not what’s needed. Its like a nice cowboys club in the Wild West.
My twin!!!
Your point about Zwift getting forced into fixing this issue is excellent…they got a crapload of VC money for the eSport division. The financial reality is that they HAVE to fix this issue now.
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As I said above I was on zwift for about 2 years and in the end it was this issue that made me quit zwift (about 2 years ago I think - about a month after alpe de zwift was launched). If zwift will actually take the issue seriously and try to solve/fix this issue then I’d certainly consider trying zwift again as i did enjoy it.
Some serious posts in this thread. Racing in Zwift is akin to war in Call of Duty, it’s not real, treat it as a fun workout and you won’t be upset. If you want to really see how you stack up against your cycling peers, enter a real race/event outdoors.
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When I play Call of Duty I expect the PlayStation Network to keep hackers out, anyone using a mouse and keyboard, etc. and to have a level playing field.
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Money talks…SMH.
I think I might have mentioned above and elsewhere, and I stand by this: this handwaving done by a lot of folks is kind of a cop out to improve the racing system. I don’t disagree that it’s a fun workout, I did a race this morning while doing 4x20’s (of course I know I get dropped during rest intervals, no big deal lol). But as long as there are folks who want to compete with zwift for whatever reason, we owe it to them to make the system more fair.
I thought of a good analogy this morning. Back in elementary school we used to play football (american football) at recess. And there were a couple of classmates who would always stack their team with the better players. It was all a game at recess, but it still sucked to have peers make it anti-competitive. Zwift racing is the same, it’s all a game but the sandbagging makes it less fun for all.
When you have Dave Towle commentating on a Zwift race, it’s certainly going in the right direction. No sandbagging here, and the efforts were certainly very real🤮
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