I have sram axs rival xplr and love it. I don’t find remembering to charge the battery to be an issue. To begin with they last awhile. But I just keep them with the normal things that I need for a ride like lights and bike computer.
I think one major obstacle is just this mine field of patents and scale. I was really tempted to get a Rotor’s 1x13 drivetrain, but someone really knowledgable who got to test it for a bike manufacturer strongly advised me against it. On paper, Rotor had a lot going for it: I love their cassettes, they have a convincing power meter story, their cranks are great (light, stiff and durable), and their lever used double tap.
Practically speaking, I think Shimano will be attacked from the bottom for all these bikes that are equipped with something like a 3x10 drivetrain with a Deore SLX rear derailleur (which, as far as I understand, is really the Deore SLX rear derailleur from 10+ years ago). They seem to address this now with their CUES drivetrain family. But let’s see.
I wish they had more competition on the high end, too. Shimano has gotten really lazy and seems to resist good ideas and popular trends.
Well, in part from people who have used both. If you are a 2x person, electronic front shifting is definitely better and easier. Especially shifting to a larger chainring in the front mechanically might requite quite a bit of skill. With electronic groupsets, it is the push of a button and it always shifts, no matter how fatigued you are and how much power you are putting down.
I think the issue is that mechanical shifting has, by and large, been excellent already. So even if electronic shifting is better, it simply might not matter to most. Right now I can definitely agree that electronic shifting is a nice-to-have to very-nice-to-have, but it is not yet essential.
SRAM’s new Transmission family of groupsets might change that. Their marquee feature is that you can shift under load, any load, and this seems like something you could not do mechanically. I have not tried a bike equipped with one of the new Transmission drivetrains yet, so I don’t know whether it lives up to the hype. But all reviews I have seen indicate that SRAM has achieved this goal.
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Have you tried sram etap? Front shifting is dreadful compared to mechanical. If you haven’t tried it, it won’t take you long to find this popular opinion spread wide across the internet.
Skill? Maybe you’ve had mechanical groupsets set up poorly in the past. I moved back from sram axs to ultegra mechanical specifically because the front shifting is so much better on ultegra mechanical. No skill required.
This is one of the benefits I eluded to, but isn’t related to the performance of the shifting. The quality of the shifts is not affected by this.
Huh? Power through the pedals doesn’t make any difference between mechanical and electronic shifting. The mechanics of the chain being moved to a different chainring or sprocket is the same on mechanical and electronic, just actuated by a different mechanism (cable vs electronic servo(?))
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To the original question, with good cables - specifically jagwire’s sealed/polished wire shift cable - and routing of those cables, I prefer my SRAM mech clicks greatly to AXS. AXS is better for a travel bike, but the short push isnt as fun as the feel of the mech. On sub-par, AXS.
My HT mtb pinches my preferred jagwire cable housing, which is a bit larger than normal housing a touch, making it draggy. Bad mechanical shifting sucks.
On a side theme here - I think the spacing on 12sp road is too narrow for cables. I did the SRAM Ratio 12sp conversion. It works, but there’s not enough rigity in the system work work perfectly with a SRAM mid-cage 1x RD and a 11-36 cassette.
Not necessarily to do with preference, but a practical observation: owner of my LBS shop who raced at national level pre-age group and age group uses electronic on their road bikes and mechanical on their off-road bikes as they believe in an emergency situation mechanical is easier to fix to get home if you’re in a remote situation.
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My road bike sports Force eTap AXS, but as 1x. I have two team mates with Red eTap AXS in 2x12 and have heard no complaints. Personally, I have only used electronic front shifting on Shimano drivetrains, so I couldn’t tell you either way.
I have heard complaints about abysmal front shifting, but never seen it in practice. Likewise, I have heard people claim that SRAM eTap shifts like crap in the rear (slow, unrefined), too, and that Shimano Di2 is a lot faster. Both worked just fine for me, and both shift so quickly (much more quickly than any mechanical drivetrain I have used) that this doesn’t matter.
Nope, it has nothing to do with bad setup.
Yes, upshifts in the front require a certain skill. I have had bikes with Shimano FDs for decades (MTB and road bikes). Especially on Shimano mechanical STI levers, upshifts in the front take skill, because e. g. Shimano’s lever throw is comically large (leading to much longer shift times) and depending on the hand position I have to use different fingers. After long rides, the dexterity and finesse especially in my smaller fingers decreases notably. (On Shimano mechanical, I’d often wrap index and middle finger around the brake lever and braked with my ring finger or middle and ring finger. In the drops I’d only use my index finger.) This is especially an issue if I combine braking with upshifts.
With electronic shifting that simply does not enter the equation, I can reliably actuate the buttons with any finger and any level of fatigue. Plus, I can and do regularly shift with my pinky now, something that I haven’t done on mechanical drivetrains.
The difference is that mechanical shifts take longer, so for mechanical upshifts in the front you have to let off power for longer. So yeah, it makes a significant difference in my experience. I could immediately tell that upshifts with a Di2-equipped loaner were noticeably nicer and faster than with my mechanical Ultegra drivetrain that I had on my previous bike.
Edit: Just to reiterate, mechanical drivetrains are great. I have XTR mechanical on my mountain bike and I consider electronic groupsets a (very) nice-to-have, but not essential. However, the biggest improvement in shifting performance is shifting in the front, without a doubt. And this comes from someone who doesn’t like front derailleurs, mechanical or electronic.
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I’ll anecdotally vouch for this. Unless set up perfectly, the 2x11 etap FD was… It left a lot to be desired. I never knew if I was going to lose my chain on a big ring shift. It liked to keep things exciting.
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I have seen some complaints about the original etap front shifting, less with the axs versions. My opinion is that much of this is setup. When I got my first force AXS 2x bike, I had it drop the chain on front shifts a few times (after thousands of shifts). I decided to check the setup and it wasn’t dialed in. I think most front shifting issues go back to poor shop mechanics just running it on the stand and saying “good enough” if it works rather than setting it up as specified in the manuals. I do think SRAM front shifting (mech and electric) is more sensitive to setup, but I’ve found it to be just as reliable as shimano when set up properly.
+1000 on this. They work, but the ergonomics are poor. The throw distance on shimano shifters (moving to bigger rings/cogs) is my biggest issue with their mechanical group. I still have one bike with ultegra mechanical on it and it’s always a shock when I get back on it. Not just the FD, but shifting the rear as well. First world problems I know, but to say that shifting shimano mechanical is in the same ergonomic ballpark as electronic shifting is factually incorrect in my opinion. Also, I’m a big fan of right paddle for harder and left paddle for easier with electronic (SRAM and Shimano). Just using the big paddles to do your primary shifting (RD) makes much more sense in my opinion.
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Id argue that, the Focus RS, Subaru WRX, Toyota Supra are all good contenders, personally at a price of $40-$45k for a Type R a Supra for the same price dwarfs that car with more mod-ability.
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I’m a sucker for Supras…my first car was a '76 Celica GT hatchback and later models had the Supra versions (which then morphed into the standalone Supra name).
I am passively looking for another 76 Celica…and one just popped up in my feed in the right color, but the timing kinda sucks right now to make the purchase. 
The Japanese Mustang
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Looks like we need to make a “Cars” thread… 
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Perhaps a “show me your car” thread?
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Plus, it adds a lot to the effective shift times. This bit of Shimano’s mechanical dropbar groupsets feels quite unpolished. My experience with e. g. Force 1 was very different. I instantly fell in love with double tap.
Although the even bigger sin is the swiveling brake/shift lever, I hated those. They are the reason I decided to go SRAM on my dropbar bike. I come from the mountain biking side, and my thumb(s) does the shifting, my index finger the braking.
On mountain bikes, I don’t have a preference, both, SRAM and Shimano work great for me.
Exactly.
This is a mystery that I don’t understand: Shimano already has the solution on its bikes. Use SRAM-style paddles for rear shifting and e. g. the top buttons for front shifts. (Shimano could also relocate the secondary shift buttons and/or add more.)
I have had a loaner for over 2 weeks with the then latest 11-speed Ultegra Di2. I just couldn’t get used to the buttons even though the shift logic was identical to Shimano mechanical (which was what I was riding at the time). And because the bike did not come with the optional Bluetooth connectivity dongle, I couldn’t reprogram them either.
Please do. I’ve got a clapped out 240Z that totally runs but looks like crap. I gotta show it off somewhere lol.
(Can motorcycles be included?)
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I made one, I will add some images as soon as I find them
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not even with jagwire elite could I get good shifting on my bike for long (ultegra r8100) and the internal cabling also made the handlebars hard to move
Got it covered @teddygram and included motos & more @CincoGirl 
Looks like we crossed streams. I merged yours with mine (since I had already added motos in the title & body).
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I rank my Sensah Empire Pro to be in line with Ultegra (some says between Ultegra and 105). It wouldn’t rank that price-wise since you can get the shifters, derailleurs, chain, and cassette combo for around $250 USD (less for 11 speed). I actually like the shifting much better that I replace my DA with their Shimano compatible Team Pro shifters. I haven’t tried SRAM mechanical but have a feeling that would I like it just as much if it’s anywhere close to how Sensah operates (given it was started by ex SRAM employees). I’m just not that picky with dual use of the brake lever.
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With the new 12 spd stuff, you can program it on your phone. And you can program the 11 spd stuff using the e-tube software connectivity…most shops have that.
Never had this issue…and honestly, the one reason why I have no reprogrammed my buttons ala SRAM-style is because I don’t know if I can get past decades of ingfrained Shimano shifting (even though I have ridden other systems during this time with no issues…SRAM. Campag and FSA).
The longer throw on shimano is a leverage thing. It’s how they get their characteristic ‘light’ shift feel (basic physics dictates a longer lever needs less force at the input end than a shorter one to achieve the same ‘output’ force).
In fairness, I’ve never found shimano mechanical shifting to be slow (though Di2 is definitely faster).
The one issue I am aware of is that some of the Cams-Basso ladies team struggled with the lever throw length and force needed on the 12sp Campag their bikes came with.