Hi I was wondering if anyone has done weeks/ months of climb trainings from Trainer road (without wahoo kickr climb or grade simulator) and does it help to improve your climbing skill?
Days are getting shorter and colder and there is no hill near where I live (too flat).
Thanks!
Honestly Iāve never really found there to be much in the way of climbing skill. Itās just physics - more watts and/or fewer kgs means faster up the hill! TR takes care of the watts, discipline with what you eat takes care of the kgs. After that itās mainly just making sure you have appropriate gearing and then pacing yourself well for the length of the climb. If youāre going to be doing some really steep stuff where gearing is an issue then maybe worth doing some low cadence work but these days there are enough gearing options to be able to spin up most hills. Some planks and core work are also a good idea, especially for really long climbs which can put a bit of a toll on your lower back.
I think are benefits to be gained by working on climbing (beyond just improved overall fitness). The steeper the climbs, I think the more it matters. I donāt think itās just a cadence/gearing thing.
I hear some people say āwatts are wattsā, but there is definitely a difference in biomechanics when climbing an 8% grade vs riding on the flats at the same power and cadence. Some call it momentum or inertia and you often hear it discussed in the context of a trainer having a big heavy flywheel (more like riding the flats) vs. a smaller flywheel (more like climbing).
Riding in the flats, I always feel like Iām āon top of the gearā and my cadence feels smooth and efficient even spinning well over 90 rpm. Contrast that with a 10% climb and my cadence feels frantic at 90 rpm and much harder for me to maintain power for an extended period. I feel like on steep hills, you really need to apply force more constantly throughout the pedal stroke because you have the constant resistance of gravity to fight with. On the flats, Iām guessing that there are bigger ādead spotsā in my pedal stroke, but the big power quadrants more than make up for it for overall wattage.
I hear about people struggling to hold power on a downhill or tailwind section and thatās where I excel. Holding it on a steep hill, much harder for me. Cadence certainly plays into that, but I think itās the different biomechanics of climbing that actually results in the lower cadence.
I also think this is somewhat trainable. Iāve always been able to do my best power on the flats, probably because I love training/riding this way with long SS and Z4 work on the flats. The climbs around here are short and I tend to avoid them, so I just donāt think my legs are as efficient when they have to fight the entire pedal stroke. Iāve worked on climbing quite a bit this year and forced myself to do a lot of steep climbing and Iāve seen some improvement in my climbing endurance and efficiency.
I donāt think climb-specific training is going to make a huge difference compared to just boosting your fitness, but I do think you need good mechanics and efficiency to get the best possible climbing performance out of whatever fitness you have.
Iāve got zero science to back any of this up, just personal observation.
This resonates for me. I have a good friend with whom Iām a very compatible rider and we have good competitive fun trying to beat each other up on climbs. I tend to excel on any climb where I can spin, but when the grade really tilts up and it becomes a grind, thatās his jam. Noticing this recently got me thinking about what I could work into my training to improve my climbing overall and in the steeps in particular. Iām optimistic that the strength training I am integrating into my training will help me in both endeavors.
Agreed and to me it feels like the workload between hip flexors and quads is redistributed in some way on steep (5%+) climbs. Not that 5% is actually steep, itās just the point that I start to notice a difference. Maybe thatās due to having to overcome dead spots or being tilted more towards the bars, but my legs definitely feel like they are engaging differently on climbs vs. flats.
Hi all,
Thanks for all the comments. Itās helpful
I would not focus here. If you said you were 160 at 5ft then I would say you could focus on that but you are already pretty light. Unless weight loss comes as a āhappy accidentā due to training and maybe better nutrition (if your current diet isnāt great) I wouldnāt make that a main goal.
It sounds like you ride a lot but you havenāt mentioned anything about how structured your training is. I would gamble that if you havenāt done anything structured until now and have just been riding a lot then you should see a decent fitness jump by following a TR plan.
These are all totally different workouts with different energy system focuses. Off the top of my head they are (over-under/VO2/over-under/sweet spot/VO2/Sweet spot/?/VO2). The specific workouts matter much less than how they fit into the overall progression and plan. I wouldnāt focus too much on the super steep sections of climbs because even though those are the parts of rides that stick out in your head they are also a pretty small percentage of the riding that you do. So I would probably just do my training at a normal cadence and then selectively add in low cadence/high force efforts.
You donāt necessarily need a kickr climb or anything like that to get better at steep grades but you do use slightly different muscles as your front wheel starts to tip up. If you feel the need to then you could do a couple (I would do this extremely rarely) workouts with your wheel lifted up onto a bench or something at an angle that simulates a 10ish% grade.
Also, if you have a smart trainer then I would do these āclimbingā workouts in your easiest gear available to simulate the low inertia of climbing. Again, I would only do this maybe every other week starting with easier workouts to get used to it and then progressing as I got closer to my goal (maybe a mountainous race or training camp) to doing it at higher power.
In summary: climbing specific training probably makes a difference. And a larger difference the steeper the grades get. But you will see a much bigger benefit by just getting fitter overall
Final Verdict: I completed two months of trainneroad climbing- trainings on a elevated bike of 15 degrees and then went for a cycling climbing camp. I survived the whole 5 days; Total damaged done: 29000ft elevation, 260miles + wind of 25mph +gust of 55mph during one of the days.
I was skeptically about the training but it did help me to survive the whole trip with no muscle ache. I had to keep my heart rate at moderate.
This topic is super interesting to me - Iāve always described myself as a āweakā climber, because I was. But it transpires really that I was just a weak cyclist whose weaknesses became exposed severely on climbs. For context, I live in Switzerland where you donāt have a choice but to climb, so there has been no escaping my flaws, which get cruelly exposed. Iāve done a lot more km this year and a lot more up, and focused on improving my climbing via hill repeats and high intensity work. Iām new to TR and started a short while ago with the low vol hill climb program. Iām hoping to continue to see improvements but its clear to me that overall Iām a lot stronger than I was, even though I still get fairly roasted on climbs by many of the guys I spin with regularly. There is definitely a gradient where my technique or strength starts to fail, just comparing myself with the local heros - if its under 5%, Iām comparatively less weak than when grades hit 8-10% where you can really see the better climbers and stronger cyclists come into their own. Iām hoping to stick with the program and see where I get to by next spring.