Kind of a newbie to this forum, although I’ve been training with TR for a long time. It’s been sometime that something of a difference between TR and other training softwares has caught my eye and I wanted to open a discussion about it.
The difference is the following:
As you can see from the following screenshots, other training softwares account for elevation gains in their virtual rides.
TR is showing elevation for me. Unless you’re saying that TR workouts don’t have elevation showing. But those are workouts and wouldn’t have elevation.
Edit: I reread your post and I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking. Zwift, MyWhoosh, Rouvy are all virtual representations of outside courses. They are like virtual worlds. So the virtual hills have virtual elevation. TR does workouts. It’s not a world so there isn’t elevation. Or you could say the elevation is 0. If it makes it easier, just think of TR as riding on a completely flat surface.
Initially, yes, I didn’t mean that TR is not showing elevation gains at all - it does when I sync my outdoors rides.
My point was what you explained in your second paragraph. Basically, the difference between TR and the other platforms is that TR offers workouts while others offer rides in “virtual worlds” (with “virtual hills” etc.). And that’s the reason why TR workouts do not account for elevation gains - although I must admit that when I ride at 110%*FTP for several minutes, it doesn’t feel like I’m riding on a flat surface!
I wish that there was a way to, let’s say, “translate” those intervals of us sweating our a*ses off into elevation gain! I don’t have any knowledge nor experience in software development/coding, so I cannot estimate if it’s doable or not, I just wish it was possible.
But unless you are using a virtual world, there is no way to “translate” your power into elevation. What grade are you riding up? Is it a constant grade every time? Does it increase in pitch as your intensity increases?
There is no appreciable way for TR to account for elevation with their workout format. Watts and time is all that matters.
Interesting question. I don’t get the fake speed/distances for indoor workouts in TP. I do get them in Strava. Maybe Strava needs a speed and distance for how it works? I just ignore them in Strava. Strava does have many challenges you can sign up for, and if based on distance, then the fake distances may have some bearing.
I wonder if a garmin would track/record elevation while riding the trainer in an elevator w no gps signal. I believe they default to pressure for detecting elevation, so they have the data in theory. All you need is a buddy that works building maintenance in a tall building and you might be setting records for virtual Everesting.
Honestly, I already struggle with whether elevation in zwift should be uploaded. Makes zero sense to me to upload elevation on a trainer ride if you aren’t riding in a virtual world with hills.
I don’t understand tracking speed, distance or elevation on a trainer, I don’t care what platform you are on. They are all fake, and that isn’t even an unpopular opinion. Just a fact. Time, calories, TSS, avg watts…I am sure there are a few other important metrics, but not distance or elevation.
Just because they are “fake” doesn’t mean they aren’t useful/motivational things to track for some people. If you do most of your training/riding indoors, these are likely useful things to track. Might be preparing for a long hilly event and want to get x feet of climbing in prior to the event. And assuming that person has a smart trainer, doing an hour of climbing in zwift is a very different effort than an hour of flat riding. Sure, it’s “fake” climbing, but still worth tracking. Watts are not just watts in zwift, lots of similar dynamics to outside with terrain, drafting, road surfaces, etc.
How is it different? How can you tell it is different?
Watts are just watts in Zwift. It may tell you that you are going faster cause you are in the draft, but I assure you, you are covering the same distance (zero).
Watts are not watts in zwift, just like watts are not watts outside. Smart trainers have variable resistance just like a climb outside changes pedaling dynamics. You get less of a flywheel effect when climbing whether virtual or real life. Climbing at 10+ percent on zwift is a grind compared to rolling in the draft in a fast group even when watts are same. And it’s not just running into gearing/cadence limitations, pedaling dynamics change when resistance changes.
And there are even smart trainers that raise and lower the from wheel to better simulate position on the bike and muscle recruitment.
I’m not saying climbing inside has the exact same dynamics as climbing outside, just that riding flats vs riding climbs is very different in zwift, just like it’s very different outside. And as much as it’s something you want to train, it’s a good thing to measure. Watts and kj’s are great metrics, but far from the only ones.
You have convinced yourself you are climbing. And maybe that is more realistic if you have a Kickr climb. But ultimately, the resistance just changed. That is all. This isn’t really any different than doing an interval in TR. In fact, it is just about the exact same thing that I did 10 years ago when I would shift into a hard gear on my Kurt Kinetic dumb trainer. No one ever got off their dumb trainer and said “I really did some great climbing today.” Elevation just isn’t a useful metric in those instances. Now, if that made up number is in some way motivating to you, fine. But even as a motivational metric, it will still stand behind time, watts, kjs, TSS for me.
Yes, virtual climbing is basically the same thing as high resistance sessions on trainer. If you choose not to track that, cool for you. If someone did want to track it, elevation in comparison to miles or hours can be a pretty good metric in my opinion.
Why do people track climbing outside? I guess some (maybe most) folks like it as another e-wang measuring stick metric on Strava, but some people might actually want to see how much “high resistance” work they are doing as prep for a climbing event. Whether you call it high resistance training or climbing becomes a pissing match in semantics, they both tell the same story and the story is directionally similar whether the work happens in zwift or on real roads.
And I’m not a guy who does a lot of climbing work in zwift, I live in a very hilly area and usually do it outside when weather permits. But I will take a trip up alp de zwift periodically to simulate really long climbs and I find it much harder than real life climbing at similar watts. Of course I want to track that fake climbing just like my other climbing, it’s ultimately working on the same things.
I feel like I remember @Nate_Pearson once very quickly mentioning this is how he thought of the name for TrainerRoad–as in, the perfect road for doing power-based intervals would be called Trainer Road.
Well, if someone joins a Strava challenge saying “Climb X amount of ft in month”, and that someone trains in other than TR platforms, those ft will be accumulated by combining indoors and outdoors workouts/rides.
