Looking for some advice, particularly from lighter riders and their similar experiences.
Im currently hovering around 61-62kg (167cm) as ive done for years, sitting at 3.35 w/kg FTP or 208w (Although AI is suggesting 219) (6 week TSS avg at 325 so room for growth in that area).
Ive recently joined a local club and we once a week do group rides with around 5-6 riders at 36-40kmh on a fairly flat course with a few punchy but very short climbs. The group takes turns on the front.
I can maintain pace with the group for the first third or so of the ride before resorting to sitting on the back and/or being dropped completely depending on the legs or wind conditions.
Looking at the ride on TR, for that first third and in order to keep pace or take part in having turns on the front, I am having to push out an average 264w.
What do you guys do in this situation, training wise, if you want to hold your own in this group.
I can aim to increase FTP (Ive been floating around 195-220 for a few year now) but getting it above 264 (270/280 ish) or 4.35w/kg sounds like a monumental increase.
Likewise I can aim to increase weight whilst maintaining 3.35w/kg, but that means putting on 16.8kg which sounds even less realistic. I cant even comprehend what I would look like or how much id need to eat to put that kind of weight on, given ive never exceeded 67kg in my entire 39 years here.
So from other lightweight riders what did you do ?
Is your bike fit and equipment pretty well dialed? If youâre pretty upright on Gatorskins itâs going to take more watts than a more aggressive fit and GP5000âs.
More seriously, to some extent, this is the curse of the smaller rider. But there are things you can do to adapt.
First, find a bigger fast group, or a slower group. I suspect most groups arenât that fast. Also, 5-6 riders isnât a large group.
Draft more closely when not on the front. When on the front, you might want to use the aero hoods position, or at minimum be in the drops. People will probably give you grief about your lack of draft, but you canât change that parameter, not really.
Also, you can play the fun game of optimizing your bike. What tires are you running, and why are they not the GP 5000 S TR (or AS TR) or a peer tire? Do you do tubeless or latex? Does your kit fit you closely (i.e. not loose)? You could buy some of, say, Silcaâs aero socks. More expensive, but maybe an aero road helmet (preferably a Specialized Evade or whatever the lower cost variant was). If your elbows stick out, bring them back in. Is your chain clean? If not, clean it. If yes, consider upgrading your lube (i.e. try a drip wax). Things like that.
Depending on your genetics, 4.35 W/kg may be out of the question, or it may be achievable! Who knows. If you can feasibly ride more, then you could certainly do that. But in real life, most cyclists arenât as fast as this group. There are other ways to enjoy cycling. The club should have a more moderately-paced group.
Had a fit done around 18 months back so could be doing with a refresher to be honest. Ive not changed any of the geometry with the exception of raising the stem 6mm to make it somewhat more comfortable on longer rides.
Only other real change has been going from 700x25 TL Giant Gavias @ 90psi (awful) to Goodyear Eagle F1 700x28âs @ 65/68 psi
The first thing I tell newer riders to a group Iâm in when it is clear they are trying to level up to stay with the group is to ânot drop yourself.â What that means is, try not taking turns on the front. Just because you are in a group doesnât mean you need to pull. When you get through a ride, maybe try taking one turn the next time, and then maybe two. And when you pull, donât pull so hard. Trust me, no one cares that the workload isnât equally shared. In fact, the stubborn ones in the group like to pull more often and would welcome it.
The second thing to focus on is nutrition. Do you feel like you are eating enough on the rides. Most people donât eat enough. If you are getting dropped in the final 1/3 of the ride, itâs likely fueling.
And third, efficiency is critical. Obviously not pulling will help with this, but otherwise, pay attention to your efficiency. Stay close in a draft, use your drops, donât let the wheel in front get so far away you have to put in a dig to get it back, donât use your brakes unless you have to, coast where you can, and use your weight to your advantage on the climbs while hiding in the pack on the flats.
Im a light weight 60-61kg rider at 175cm tall and in the most part Iâll be doing the dropping even in the flat Fens. Iâve developed the power to do so. The only folk whoâll really drop me are folk a lot younger than me.
Other groups, albeit slightly slower are certainly far more manageable. Likewise hilly courses also dont bother me as much.
Drafting wise, Im new to group riding at paces like this on the outside roads so the gapping will certainly get better over time. I think if anything I find the timing for pulling out into the overtaking line is the biggest pitfall & the obligatory surge when your finally at the front.
Aero gains is certainly an area im looking at given its my worst enemy at this weight. The Goodyear Eagle TLâs at 28 certainly improved comfort over my former 25âs but not sure if they are more aero. Kit tends to be tight fitting but not skinsuit tight and helmet is a toss up between the kask protone ive been using so far, or my other two options of a Giro Vanquish (visor or not).
Chain is either a KMC X12 with wet lube for rainy days or an Ultegra with Moltenspeedwax if its dry.
Elbows are interesting as I used to ride drops 75% of the time, but now find myself in the drops 25% of the time and hands on the hoods with forearms parallel to the ground the rest of the time.
| can see what you mean about the group. Last week I ended up setting a 10th fastest segment time whilst trying to catch up off the back which got me thinking⌠3 of the other 4 were between 2nd & 8th on the same segment so these guys seem quick. Certainly quicker than me and all of them are between 78-90kg.
I told myself next time, im going to try and just sit on the back for the entire ride. See if I can not get dropped and go from there. That goes onto your third point though. When skipping turns, I find the most challenging part is when the rider pulls out from infront of you, leaving a bike length till the next guy giving this periodic headwind effect. Certainly easier than turns though.
Nutrition wise, ill put my hand up there as im absolutely pants.
These rides are 45km long & iâll take no food at all for that. Hell ill take half a 500ml bottle of water and wont drink any of that either.
Used to be the same for indoor rides where even on a 3-4 hour Z2 in the middle of winter, ill have 2x 500ml bottles but food wise, it will be just a banana.
My generic diet isnt bad, but pre-ride, during & post ride nutrition is a shocker.
Yep! I was new to group riding, and would âtake my turnâ at the front, and consume every bit of mojo I had left, and as a result was often dropped off the back as I drifted to the rear to ârecoverâ. I started passing the pull and was able to hang with the group far better, and also discovered the idea that pulling at the front at the previous riders pace just wasnât possible, and on the former, I caught crap for not âdoing my shareâ, and the later got some positive comments just for being up there a bit. Like pulling in head winds required me pulling slower, and also shorter. And yeah, some were pissed, but I wasnât a semipro racer wanna-be so just being there was worth it. (There is always someone, seemingly, that will complain about anything in a group ride)
When I last was on a group ride, I was stronger and able to pull more, but there were still complaints from some. You have to have a thick skin to hang with a group ride I guess. Itâs like Lord Of The Flies, survival of the fittest. I was riding a Peloton at one point years ago, and showed up to a group ride and hung with the group and doing my share of pulling, and I found out later that year that some had bought Pelotons for off season. Hah!
But getting dropped. I used to think that me showing up made people ride faster just to drop me. Yeah, no, but it sure seemed that way at times. But donât quit showing up and donât quit indoor training and pushing yourself. I miss group rides because they pushed me, but with all thatâs happened this year, I just canât see doing it yet.
But also look into cross-training. Nutrition helps, itâs all a big systemâŚ
One other random thought: Change your gearing and maybe crank length? (I was riding an aggressive cassette when I was getting dropped, and switched to a more relaxed one and it was a game changer I thought. I had the top end, but a better lower end . HTH
actually sitting on the back is not always the best either. It has that snap the whip action on turns and corners which makes it hard to stay on. Try staying a few riders from the back, you get a draft benefit from both the rider in front and in back. Also remember as long as you donât abruptly change speed, the fact you are on the front can allow you a time to ease over then fade back. If you communicate with the others either during or before the ride that you are trying to stay on they may help you out as well. For instance instead of going all the way to the back they may let you in 2 or 3 from the back to help keep you in the group. It is all about what type of group they are.
Switch to Carbs in your drink and get in the habit of sipping, small but often (Other riders are a good cue). I think I took a 650ml bottle for my 58km paceline last night.
PS, my hands are starting to get back to normal after chemo 5 years ago which for a long time forced drinking only and I still tend to take no food unless its 100km + and thats a cafe stop
This could be the problem. Snacking isnât a bad thing (even just a piece of banana), and not drinking? Even on a cooler day, I was always getting a sip in every so often.
EDIT: I also used straight water, mostly, but occasionally on hot days would mix a lean bottle of âelectrolyteâ powder.
So a bit of a harsh dose of realityâŚâŚit is not your chain or your tires that are the cause of your struggles (and at 45 km in length, it probably isnât your nutrition but you could use some improvement there). The reality is that you lack the foundation, fitness and experience to ride with the group all the way to the finish.
And that is perfectly OK!!! Weâve ALL been in that spot.
So the first thing you need to adjust is upping your volume if you canâŚ.more miles, more better. You need to build your aerobic engine. Add in more time wherever you canâŚ.tack on 30 min of Z2 after intervals, etc. Every mile helps.
Then, as noted above, ride smarter in the group. Donât pull if you donât have to, or if you do pull, go âthrough and offâ. Donât take sustained pulls and definitely donât do âhero pullsâ where you are gassed coming off the front and get gapped / dropped trying to get on at the back. As your fitness builds, you can increase the amount of pulling you are doing. Your primary goal should be to get to the finish with the group.
There is no miracle fix or silver bulletâŚit takes time and work, but youâll get there.
Yeah, because I learned you have to plan to stay on the group when you start your pull. I would try to do âjust like the big kidsâ, and have to chop output as I drifted back to the end, and then have nothing to keep on the end. I was concentrating more on âthe pullâ rather than âthe groupâ and my ability to stay on it. Once I started taking that into account, I was a much better rider (in my mind at least) because I wasnât playing hero, and wasnât trying to keep up at the front with people I couldnât keep up with individually. The group is about everyone working to their ability for the group, and if I canât pull, I was still helping draft those behind me.
Dying at the front isnât going to get you fansâŚ
Indeed!! Keep at it. Even a failed ride is beneficial. Ride all you can, and donât skip the zone 2, zone 3 training. And pardon me, but fuck your weight! Light or chunky, others have done it, and you can to!! Donât get into negative thinking, donât psych yourself out. YOU CAN DO THIS!!
These guys seem a good bunch so far to be honest. Good advice from them, say skip if I need to, keep gaps shut etc. I dont think theyâll mind me sitting on the back.
Will certainly try this. Its a habit I know I need to get out of.
Absolutely, my intention with this thread was not to ask what I can do at my current fitness level to keep up as I honestly dont think its possible. Some of these guys hold many local KOMs, have won local crit series, take part in national series TTs etc, Im under no illusion that I can keep up in my current state.
It was more a question of moving forward as a light weight rider, do I keep the weight the same & up the FTP by a huge amount, or maintain my FTP and gain weight by a different kind of huge amount lol.
I think after taking all these points on board, ill cheekily keep on turning up, rock as much aero gear as I can, take minimal turns until I can survive the ride & start upping the weekly TSS average to 450-500 & see how it goes over winter. (These weekly rides only run May-Oct)
Will keep gaining a ludicrous 17kg as a future nuclear option.
Negative thinking doesnt seem to be bother me as much as others. I imagine mainly because I have no intention of winning anything etc or a feeling that I have to be good enough to do so. Im an mechanical engineer in my professional life and have a love of the science behind this along with numbers. If anything its mainly a challenge to myself more than me challenging them.
That said, cheekily, I did go into this thinking 3.35 w/kg will surely be enough to go into a local club thats on the small scale & hold my own.
I hadnt realised that the first rides I decided to join them for was the most severe rides they do with all the guys who are involved with competitive racing we live to learn
which sounds even less realistic. I cant even comprehend what I would look like or how much id need to eat to put that kind of weight on, given ive never exceeded 67kg in my entire 39 years here.
, I would love to.
. HTH
