Almost woke my partner laughing. 
As the guys have covered on the podcast, the downward/forward force on the handlebar will sort of happen automagically when you focus on the hard force on the foot to the outside of the turn.
This leads to a force that will bring the bike upright, unless you apply a balancing force with the hand on the bar to the inside of the turn. Itâs all about balancing the forces, with an emphasis on putting the bike into the lean angle that makes it turn properly.
Itâs a bit chicken/egg as you can consider one leading to the other. The important thing is that the act of turning something that takes multiple elements blended together to get the best results.
I almost hate to mention this (at the risk of adding to the confusion), but it is important to addâŚ
For clarity, counter steering is the proper technique used when cycling at typical speeds. There is actually the fact that steering a bike is done 2 different ways, and it is based on the bike design and rolling speed.
- âNormalâ steering is used for slow speeds (from a slow roll, to walking and running speeds).
- There is a transition speed when the steering method changes to the other.
- Itâs not set in stone and will vary with bike geometry, but it is around 10-15 mph for typical bikes.
- The counter steering is used for speeds above that transition speed (typical riding speeds).
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Pretty much this.
The only thing I will add is outside-inside-outside technique is fastest. Start on outside of the turn, go to the inside (apex) of the turn, come out on the outside.
The key is pushing down with the outside foot. The more you push down, the tighter you can make your turn.
Also donât panic. If you panic, shit will hit the fan quickly.
Have good tires and be more conservative in the rain.
If you have shorter cranks, you can lean more and even pedal through the whole turn sometimes.
If ever stops raining in ohio Iâll acatully get to go outside and try these out some great tips here. Any good drills I can setup?
Find a loop with turns and start slow and as you gain confidence slowly go faster and faster.
This countersteer happens for a brief instant to initiate the turn. Then you turn into the direction of the turn.
Everyone who rides a bike already does this, otherwise youâd fall off.
Next time you are out on the bike, make a left turn. Youâll notice you initiated the left turn by first briefly turning the bars to the right causing you to lean left. Then you turned the bars to the left to complete the turn.
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I donât think you should aim to hang off the bicycle as you would with a motorbike.
With the motorbike/rider combination the bike is much the heavier and the emphasis is to keep the bike upright (compared to the rider) to maximise the weight over the contact patch - the bulk of the weight over the contact patch comes from the bike.
With the bicycle/rider combination the rider rider is much the heavier and the emphasis is to keep the rider upright (compared to the bike) to maximise the weight over the contact patch.
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How do you corner when commuting winter time and you see snow/gravel/ice in the middle of the corner?
And yes, of course I almost donât hang off a bicycle at all, only lean a bit into the corner and not away from the corner because of the dangerous asphalt. On a touring motorbike, I might hang off with my upper body and head. On a sports bike, going stupid fast, I push my butt off the seat with my inne knee and hang off with my entire body, as close as possible to the ground. Some people stick their butt out but for some reason keep their head over the bars.
No physicists here to explain all the forces involved?
Hi Hugo, If I have got this wrong then apologies for confusing the issue - but I do believe it to be correct. For what itâs worth the first time I heard the principle put in this way was by Johnathan (Lee) on his mountain bike podcast - canât remember which episode. Though I didnât doubt him as such (since he is very experienced at both) like you I did feel the need to dig into the physics a bit to satisfy myself that this made sense - which I did.
I suspect that gravel/ice doesnât change the fundamental conclusion but I didnât expressly look into that at the time. I imagine there probably is someone on this forum who could readily point to some definitive information.
And if I have got this wrong - and misunderstood Johnathan (since I doubt he will have got it wrong) - then I do apologise and will be very interested to learn what is actually going on.
Is this agreed on, the countersteer is only used to initiate the turn, after that you turn the handlebars into the direction of the turn?
I think there was some mention of continually applying the force in the opposite directionâŚ
That other part, after the initial counter steer, happens somehow by itself (maybe fork rake effect?). So when youâre already leaned over maximally, you then steer by speed, so braking makes your bike turn more and throttle makes it turn less. If you want to lean more, you counter steer more, and if you want to lean less, you steer into the corner.
Steering a bicycle/motorbike is more complicated than a car, but when you get a hang of it everything happens intuitively. Also, the steering through throttle/braking applies to cars as well.
Just for fun and to show counter steering hereâs a picture of Guy Martin at the TT a few years ago.
Picking the bike up from a left hander and going to the right, youâll see his front wheel is facing the âwrongâ way, heâs actually turning right here
Mountain bikes, motocross, enduro, rally are different, as said before, since your aim is to slide on the surface with control. The same goes for supermoto, even though theyâre on asphalt.
So, as soon you slide, the technique is different (lean the bike and keep the body upright). When you donât slide, the MotoGP/road bike technique applies.
Ah, two wheels are so much fun. 
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I really donât understand why people are emphasising the relationship to motorbikes. Not everyone on this forum rides a motorbike so they donât have that experience to draw on. And whilst motorbikes share some similar characteristics, thereâs plenty they donât share too which just complicates things for an amateur cyclist trying to improve their confidence/skill.
I agree with @iMatt66. You donât need to hang off a bicycle. Your knee may point towards the inside of the corner as this allows the hips to be open enough to turn in to the corner (this was covered in a recent podcast). Motorcycle riders do this because the gyroscopic forces at work in a corner (due to the speed and weight they possess which bicycles do not) wants the bike to continue in a straight line, and the bodyweight of the rider is necessary to wrestle the bike in to a position suitable for cornering.
Whatâs strange is this is at least one of the better descriptions of the counter steer, but I never get the sensation that Iâm still countering once the lean happens. In Lopes and McCormackâs mastering mountain bike skills they mostly just discuss how the rounding of the turn is the most important thing to focus on, and the countersteer works itself out when trying to take the proper entry in to the turn, since bikes donât like to simply just turn left, turn right but take an even radius. The act of initiating the countersteer is pretty quick, the first pop to the outside and the rest just seems to happen on its own
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This cornering discussion depends on current level and future ambitions. If you want to be the best at cornering among good riders, then motorbike racing technique is applicable. If youâre just scared of cornering at 30 km/h, donât bother - itâs unnecessarily complicated. Look at some GCN videos and listen to the easier advices here instead.
Itâs like comparing a safety driving course and a racing driving course. The first says you have to finish breaking before a corner, while the other says you have to trail brake into apex. Trail braking into apex for beginners is dangerous, while doing the same thing is safer and necessary for more skilled drivers/riders.
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Look at Nibaliâs body position 54 seconds into the video. Thatâs how itâs done. Even Saganâs body position behind him isnât as good.
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On a road bike, once you are in the turn, the handlebars will be pointed in the direction of the turn. That said, youâll need to apply a slight opposing force to prevent the bars from turning even more. The reason for this is that when you lean a bike, due to the geometry of the bike (specifically, trail), the wheel turns in the direction of the lean. This is the force you need to oppose to prevent the bike from turning more than you want it to.
So as an example, if you are in a left turn, the bars are pointing left, the bike is leaned left, but you are applying a slight force to the right to prevent the bars from turning even more to the left.
Edit: I should have added, we all do this today without thinking about it when cornering.
When you drift a bike, you may actually be countersteering throughout the turn. But most people donât drift road bikes. Sometimes on a mountain bike if you are a good rider.
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Awesome seeing pros like that in action.
Hopping that curb at the end got Sagan a good 20yds on Uran and Nibali, and a chance to rest. Genius move.
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This was epically awfulâŚ
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