Hello,
I am looking for help to understand some puzzling (shall I say disappointing?) training results I see on Garmin Connect since I am using TR.
A little background.
I am 52 years old, 180cm, 67Kg.
I started road cycling just last spring.
I have always been sporty (soccer, tennis, running, swimming). So when I started cycling as fitness activity I was not coming off the couch.
Being a beginner cyclist, during spring and summer I have been doing completely unstructured workouts.
Typically 3-4 rides per week. These were 2-3 rides on workdays lasting 45-60 minutes on in hilly areas where I live, and then one longer ride (usually Z2 flat ride) on weekends.
As soon as I started my FTP was 190.
At the end of the summer Garmin estimated my FTP to be ~200.
Moreover my Vo2Max during the spring-summer time was in the range of 52-54 (going up and down).
End of September I bought a smart trainer and then started a TR plan. Did an FTP test on TR and got 205.
I am just finishing now my first cycle of General Base (I had one week stop because I got covid at the beginning of october). So I am not in the “recovery week” of the General Base.
Last week TR AI estimated my FTP to be 210.
Now I get to the puzzling part.
All my TR workouts are pushed to Garmin connect and in the past 2 weeks I see that my VO2Max is dropping to the point that it was estimated to be 48 this week.
Moreover, today I went for a ride outdoor (so not using TR but just tracking the ride with my garmin edge) and at the end of the ride Garmin suggested to lower my FTP to 188.
I am super-familiar with the ride I did today and I thought it was not bad.
As a matter of fact I even broke PRs on a couple of climb segments.
Garmin Training Status is telling me that I am training properly but my fitness is deteriorating…
So I am a little puzzled and also disappointed.
Any one can help to shed a light on this?
Thank you very much.
BR
G.
I see the same thing with mine as well, I wouldn’t worry about it. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Garmin really uses the data it gets pushed to it very well (if at all). You’ll get better “scores” using the head unit for your activity.
I wouldn’t worry too much about garmins FTP estimations - I’ve only ever got it to be right if I actually do some kind of max effort.
It’s meant to be smarter than that but it isn’t in my experience at least.
Without a lab it’s just a guess. Some guesses are more accurate than others.
Quote;
“ The anaerobic threshold is often measured in the lab by taking a drop of blood to check lactate levels during constant-speed efforts. However, since this is not practical for most athletes, the concept of FTP (Functional Threshold Power) was introduced in the early 21st century as a simpler way to estimate the anaerobic threshold.
Maximum oxygen consumption can only be sustained for a limited period (from 4 to 10 minutes) due to lactate buildup. This lactate increase quickly leads to muscle fatigue, making it impossible to continue exercising at the same intensity. **FTP is based on a one-hour test, which approximates the limit time at which an athlete can sustain effort at their anaerobic threshold.”
Yeah, if you really want to drive your Garmin head unit crazy, try doing a bunch of SST workouts. This past summer, every time I spent more than 20 minutes straight at sweet spot, it would drop my FTP at the end of the ride as if that were a max effort. Even when a day or two earlier I had done harder workouts at threshold for longer durations, so there was fresh data showing a higher FTP.
Garmins VO2max numbers are pretty random, mine will go up indoors and fall on group rides. I wouldn’t worry about it.
I wouldn’t worry about its FTP estimate either, its estimating of max efforts for 20 mins. If you’ve been doing productive interval training it’s unlikely you’ve ever been maximal for 20mins. TR profiles your FTP based on all intensities and periods, using AI to process it.
IMHO Garmin data is as random as lottery numbers.
Give a go at intervals.icu on the web which is free although for what you get it’s worth the money.
David provides a eFTP (estematedFTP) which, for me is pretty accurate compared to TrainerRoad.
You may find this helpful.
VO2 Max and FTP are calculated on a Garmin device AFAIK and not in Garmin Connect. So those values won’t be getting calculated/updated from TR. You’ll need to dual record to get those metrics.
Actually this is an interesting point.
Is it possible that FTP is estimated by the Garmin device and the VO2Max by the Connect?
Otherwise I have no clue where the VO2max updates are coming from.
I don’t think TR makes any VO2max estimation.
Without even an FTP test, it’s all just a guess.
Are you mixing data from two power meters? If so, accuracy is going to take a hit.
Along with the FirstBeat data on how to improve your Garmin VO2, here is how Garmin Calculates the number and also, documentation that it does take TR rides into account. What Is VO2 Max Estimate and How Does It Work? | Garmin Customer Support
If you’re not aware, Garmin bought FirstBeat and uses their methodology. That’s why I posted the link above.
I had missed your previous post. Sorry.
The page you linked clarifies a lot of doubts. Thank you.
I did FTP tests. 188W during summer and 205 when i started TR.
Then TR AI updated my FTP to 210 recently.
But you are right, I am mixing up data from different power meters. I did not think about that.
I guess I should double record on my Edge my TR workouts…
Just take power from your bike’s power meter. Most software allows this.
I guess I have to that in the Elite trainer app?
Or in TrainerRoad. I think it’s called power match.