far out man
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There was a comment in the Update Thread about how success, however that was measured by TR, wasn’t different from other plans.
The exact words were
Given that, why not give it a try. On the surface, same benefit with less work and likely more sustainable in the long run.
I am curious what metric(s) they used to come to that conclusion though.
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All things being equal except the weather, I’d go for SS Base/Build over polarized if inside training were my only option. I found the Polarized plans to be well suited to riding outside.
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You would assume it is not “less” work, just “different”.
Much like ISM Z2 palava, there are no magic bullets.
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That’s a fair point and their comment was very opaque about how they compared POL plans to the others. What controls were used to compare the plan types (LV/MV/HV, hours, TSS, rides per week, KJ) matters as does what they used as the desired outcome.
That said, comparing LV Pol to LV SSBase, there’s a pretty big TSS difference. Same with MV and HV, mostly due to the reduction in intense workouts. I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to say that the POL plans are “less work” or “easier”.
FWIW, the longer I’m in endurance sports, the more I believe in two things:
- THE workout you do doesn’t matter nearly as much as doing A workout.
- Tomorrow’s workout is always more important than today’s workout, so make sure today’s workout lets you complete tomorrow’s.
With those “rules” in mind, the POL plans appear set you up pretty well for long term success.
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Since I am not racing and my goal is simply to be faster on a bike and have better fitness, I’m wondering if it would be possible to simply rinse and repeat the POL MV Build plan and do it over and over for an entire year. I really enjoy both the VO2 and Threshold workouts so I don’t think I’d actually get bored of it. Curious if anyone else has tried this or thought of it as well.
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I’m considering it.
Dependant upon what gains are made between my current FTP AI from a couple of weeks ago to 1st Jan. with one caveat , I’ll be increasing weekly hours from 10 to 15hrs while hitting a mixture of z2 dependant on fatigue,
So far it feels more sustainable when compared to the old SSBMV.
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I don’t see why not except you might get a little bored at some point. One thing I did appreciate with the plan was that it was really simple and predictable, and I was able to stay pretty fresh with 4-5 days of riding per week.
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I just got presented an all time high FTP detection from Garmin (and Strava/Intervals). Whilst a large part of me is in doubt and convinced it’s PM error, my fitness has definitely increased.
I’ve been following Pol Build (with some changes due illness etc - a main reason I think they can’t get 100% reliable data) all winter with very little Sweet Spot. My fitness hasn’t felt huge at all but it does seem to be turning.
I’m not exactly less fatigued, but I’m different fatigued.
I think the TR Pol Build plan is on point.
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I’m late 50s and strength work for me is also upper body for reasons of trying to age well.
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While I’m enjoying the HV polarised I also have the benefit of carrying a lot less fatigue associated with last years MVSSB. I’m am fatigued but not excessively.
However the threshold workouts are taxing but do able as I’m finding it’s more about mental resilience rather than physical ability so my outlook is my AI derived FTP is about right. That said the over unders I did on my second week pushed me to the closest I’m come to failing a workout without failing. The Vo2 are fine and while I’m hitting the power targets my heart rate isn’t elevated into my higher range.
So I’m thinking of adding some 3 minute full out sprints with 15 rest x 3 in a hour commute home.
Of course I could swap a Vo2 productive to a stretch or breakthrough workout which would utilise the AI aspect.
Any informed comments gratefully received.
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I like the polarized plans. Mixing intensity and longer, lower intensity workouts just feels right to me, and I seem to tolerate them a lot better. Two years ago I did a tradition plan, 3 days/week, was quite diligent and rarely missed a workout. I was also fatigued a whole lot. Last year, I did polarized, medium volume (4 days/week), but I missed a lot of workouts. Interestingly, I feel like last year benefitted me more. A little less raw power, but more stamina. On my local trails, I was just plain faster. This year, I’m sticking with polarized, and hope to miss a lot fewer workouts.
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You are tired or not doing vo2 max hard enough. Yes, this is polarized conclusion;) but this can be either one. If you are doing vo2 max in erg mode - move to resistance or slope and smash the power. If your max is not elevating hr - you are tired.
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You aren’t sprinting. A sprint at most lasts 20-30 seconds and probably closer to about 12 seconds, this of course varies by person. Anything much longer than that you would have to pace. I’d consider what you’re trying to accomplish with 3 minutes efforts with long recovery intervals.
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That is basically long interval VO2 max development at 3 min HIIT efforts and similar recovery.
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Glad it sounds like the plan has been going well for you! Over/unders are definitely some tough workouts, so nice job grinding those out. 
If your VO2 workouts are feeling a bit too easy, I think you should try replacing them with some Stretch VO2 workouts using Workout Alternates as opposed to adding more intervals on top of what you’re already doing. Too much intensity could throw the train off the rails, and we like to advise being cautious when adding extra volume/intensity onto your existing plan.
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I know I probably poking a hornets nest with these questions. I am just trying to better understand POL plans.
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Why are the Hard workouts not Anaerobic (PL classified) in nature?
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Also Is there a reason why in VO2 workouts (ex. Saddle Mountain) the rest periods are shorter. With Saddle in mind why not increase recovery periods by 6 minutes to 10 minutes and the hard parts from 106% to 110% or 115%?
Thanks for the education
Why they should be anaerobic? Training anaerobic power is very specific training and if you are not a track sprinter, not very useful - especially all year long. It also comes pretty fast and you could see quite rapid improvement after a couple of sessions. Cycling is an aerobic sport and any effort longer than couple of seconds sprints has an aerobic component. For example, 1min power is roughly 50%/50% anaerobic to aerobic contribution (this can also vary). So basically improving anything aerobic you improve everything.
Good read for beginning:
More advanced talk but with a huge amount of knowledge nuggets:
By shortening the rest period you increase oxygen demand and keep it elevated. Your observation is correct - if you increase the work part, you can increase also the recovery time as this is enough to keep this demand high and elicit adaptations.
But power over FTP is highly individual and doing it by percentage is pointless as some people can hold only 105% of FTP for 4 min, and other people can do 130% for 4min. It comes to anaerobic contribution mostly, muscle composition etc. The proper thing to do is disable erg mode, use resistance/slope mode and do intervals as hard as you can. With vo2 max breathing (like a fish out of water) is the key.
Knowledge part:
VO2max – Spare Cycles - @SpareCycles is a great source of knowledge about vo2 max.
I could also recommend Empiricalcycling podcast - there is a huge set of vo2 max episodes - from biochemical and physiological point of view to training. It’s quite a complicated thing that requires listening a couple of times but then comes “aha” moment.
If you want a way easier version for a start:
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Thank you - shame on me.
Increasing intensity above FTP/CP/MMSS does not appear to additionally improve time-trial performance in endurance trained athletes, while increasing interval duration (as long as it’s still above FTP/CP/MMSS) does improve TT performance by ~0.37% per additional minute, at least up to 6 minutes.
I know @empiricalcycling places a higher priority on intensity with successful outcomes, so it’s worth listening to both perspectives, and consider what makes sense for your situation.
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