How hard should 30-30s be?

I’m new to TR but in my prior training experience I’ve done traditional VO2 max workouts of 3-5 minutes. Using my TR plan I’ve completed one 30-30 workout but didn’t feel that it stressed my aerobic fitness as much as what I was used to. My question is how hard should I go on each 30s interval, as hard as I can for 30s or stick to the 120% of FTP as prescribed?

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Depends what the intent of the workout is:

VO2 Max: do 30/15s or 40/20s instead. 30/30s give you too much recovery. Go hard enough out of the gate that your HR quickly gets up and your breathing gets ragged. The power of the efforts will fall slightly over the course of each set. 2 or 3 sets each of about 10 minutes with 5 to 10 minutes between sets.

Anaerobic capacity: Not quite a full sprint but not far off. The power will drop significantly over the course of each set. 2 to 4 sets each of 5 minutes with 10 minutes between sets. Try not to fall off the bike after each set.

There are no set power targets. Either absolute or relative to FTP. You have to FAFO. :+1:

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30/30 is classic Billat protocol for VO2max. Target HR should be in the 90-95% bracket. 120% of FTP might not be sufficiently intense; 125%, or thereabout might be more appropriate.

The benefit of these kind of protocols is that it’s possible to accumulate considerable time in zone without accumulating high levels of lactate acid.

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My coach 10 years ago would have me do 30/30s at 145-150% ftp ‘on’, soft pedal for ‘off’ (<50% ftp), repeat.

When I came to this forum, I found it quite surprising to hear people would do them at 120%, it’s a bit baffling how that would get you good vo2 gains IMO (how long do you need to do that to breathe heavy :thinking:). It’s almost like a gimmic: get your vo2 gains without actually riding that hard! No more lung busting workouts, “train smarter - not harder!”

Over the last 2 years, I started doing them at the same 145-150% ‘on’, but 60-65% ‘off’. It’s a much harder workout, obviously, but you just got to do more sets and aim to stretch the reps within each set as the fitness builds.

Many ways to skin a cat, but I am a big advocate of the really high to really low (or endurance)

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Veronique did her research based on running so the intensity needs some tweaking to get right. In my experience >125% is good but there’s likely some individual variation. The benefit of following this protocol compared to longer Norwegian fours etc. Is that it’s easier to accumulate more tiz.

Pubmed.

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I have started doing my 30 / 30’s (or any high intensity, short duration interval like VO2 max) at a pace / effort that feels like the max effort I can do for the interval time / recovery period.

That said, if you are new to TR, the early workouts for a given high-intensity training zone tend to be relatively easy but quickly ramp up in difficulty. So if this was your first 30/30 workout on TR, just keep going and things will definitely become more difficult.

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The hardest repeatable effort you can do. DONT look at Hr, DONT just try for X%. Put in slope mode and crush yourself. The last 30sec should be horrible. If its not your going too easy. Just go HARD

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This is the way.

Granted 30/30s can also help train VO2max, you’re forced to work much more aerobically doing 30/15s or 40/20s, so it really does depend on what the intent is. I give people roughly 5min power +/- as a notional power target and most sets they’re there for 6-8+ minutes and they do it 2-4 times.

30/30s at 120% of FTP (or really any set % of FTP) are a waste IMO. Go as hard as you can. Repeat until finished.

Neither set is ideal for VO2 training, IMO, but all roads lead to Rome.

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Like The Roadman Podcast (on YT) says Michael Barry told him - ‘go until you see Jesus’?!

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For how I prescribe 30/30 40/20 etc intervals it’s max. I don’t use them as vo2 work for obvious reasons.

You essentially go all out for 30s, recover for 30s and repeat. It’s really fun :face_vomiting:

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It’s not unusual to find 30/30’s an easy workout. There is substantial individual variation of perceived exertion during those intervals at 120%…and I share your experience that 30/30’s don’t feel that hard & recently completed a 30/30 session that was +1.1 to my VO2max workout level…a ‘stretch’ workout…and it just doesn’t seem that hard. For me, I get better adaptation from hard start VO2max intervals. If I’m doing 30/30s it’s because I’m tired of doing long interval endurance work.

On the other hand, some people really get blasted by 30/30s & probably not because they are wimps…probably because they just have a little different physiology or training history. We’re all a little different.

So, if you’re in search of a more challenging VO2max workout, check out my thread on the anatomy of a 15 minute VO2max interval (another innovation from Veronique). Or maybe one of the excellent threads on this forum regarding hard start VO2max intervals.

If you really want to target VO2max, I think 30/30s might not be the best approach. 30/30s are great to sharpen up your VO2max over the course of several weeks…target enzymatic and transporter changes. For longer term VO2max improvement, refer to @empiricalcycling excellent VO2max series & their recommendations for using VO2max work to do a little cardiac remodelling. And if you want to employ another little understood peripheral long term VO2max adaptation, refer to Kyle Thompson’s work at Guelph.