I’m new to this forum and was looking for some training advice.
I have a personal goal of being able to hold 5w/kg for 30mins and was wondering how realistic that goal is and how best to train for it?
I have 15weeks to do some structured training for this target.
I’m aiming for 30mins @ 350w at 70kg
Current weight is 75kg (lowest was 73kg last august)
Current 20min power is 338w (personal best is 347w)
Current training regime is 2 sessions per week of 3x15min @305w
And 3 other rides totalling 8hours of zone2
Trying to achieve 80/20 split of zone2 and threshold work
I have recently done a lactate test to help make sure I’m training in the correct zones but not sure how best to do it.
How much training history do you have? Assuming you’ve been training for a few years, threshold work is unlikely to further raise your FTP significantly if at all.
I think your best bet is a VO2 Max block first, then a threshold block.
I’ve been riding for around 5 years (4-6k miles per year) but the last year I’ve done around 11k miles. All my cycling has been social group rides with the mid week fast group rides in the summer. I have never followed any training program or structure… just jumped on my bike and turned the pedals.
The current training plan is just something I’ve started over the Christmas period… but don’t actually know if it’s beneficial or not. Just what I’ve seen on YouTube.
Essentially I’m looking to lose 5kg over the next 4months… but also at 12watts to my current 20min power (338 to 350) but try to hold that for another 10minutes.
I should probably do a 30min effort and see what that power is to see how much I need to improve.
If you’re only training 8 h/wk, my guess is that you could handle significantly more intensity.
Moreover, unless you are exceptionally talented (trainable), I think that is the only way you’ll reach your goal.
ETA: Applying Hunter’s rule-of-thumb, your FTP is presently about 320 W…I get that it is January, but 3 x 15 min at 305 W is just barely scratching the surface.
Below can be done at 10 hours/week or as much as 16 if you have time.
M: Off
T: 5x5 @ 120%, 10 min rest b/w each, 30 min warm-up, 15 min cool down = 2 hrs
W: 2-4 hours Z2
R: 2-4 hours Z2
F: Off
S: 5x5 @ 120%, 10 min rest b/w each, 30 min warm-up, 15 min cool down = 2 hrs
S: 2-4 hours Z2
You need to be 100% honest with yourself about the intervals - they need to be really, really difficult and painful, but doable. When you finish the 5th you need to be grateful that it’s over, but also proud of yourself. If you think yeah, I could have done 6x5, or that wasn’t so bad, then you need to add 5w to your efforts.
But keep in mind, getting to 5 w/kg fitness requires time, so if you have the talent it would be ideal to be putting in a good 15 hours/week.
'Top 10 things I’ve learned using a power meter
10) I shouldn’t lose weight
9) I need big gears
8) I need small gears
7) Strength is irrelevant
6) Don’t start too hard in TTs
5) Train less, rest more
4) Heat acclimatization is critical
3) Specificity
2) SPECIFICITY
SPECIFICITY!"
With respect to the last three, the training plan you have proposed will make somebody good at going hard for 5 min at a time… but the OP’s goal is to increase his 30 min power.
Joly: Rest/recovery is a necessary part of training, and you’re still doing 10-16 hours per week including two days off (you only have 10 hours, correct?). Intervals need to be done really intensely and you cannot be tired going into them.
Cog: From my experience, VO2 training makes threshold feel quite easy, as it is extremely beneficial to hold watts for time that are far above what you can hold for 30 minutes. But sure, I would be happy to recommend a version of a 30 minute supra-threshold effort.
45 minute warm up
5 min @ 100% FTP using ERG mode
4 min @ 102%
3 min @ 104%
2 min @ 106%
1 min @ 108%
1 min @ 108%
2 min @ 106%
3 min @ 104%
4 min @ 102%
5 min @ 100%
15 min cool down
Why don’t you just do a test and see how long you can hold 350 watts for? Set a benchmark and then start working around that number. Test yourself every 3-4 weeks and just do short workouts for that goal. Whatever your max time is, break it down into sets of 3, 4, or 5 and start doing intervals 2-3 times a week and increase your time in zone. Maybe not exactly the way I described but you get the point - get your body used to producing that power and extend it. If it doesn’t seem to work at all over the course of a few weeks after a rest week then try something else. Good luck.
I would start with higher volume base training. When you get close enough maybe try Evoq’s rest reduction protocol, they say most hit their 30min pr doing it.
I have tried a couple of 5x5min @350w workouts and just about managed to complete it. The last 2 efforts are brutal and cadence drops but I can just about complete it. I currently do 8hours of zone2 and 90mins of zone4 but roughly 11hours total riding time a week.
Although it’s all on an indoor trainer and I struggle to get more time due to work and family commitments.
How long did you rest for the just about manageable 5x5 at 350w? If it was a shorter rest it is better news than long rest with regards to your goal.
If you recently did 338w for 20min, then I would highly recommend some VO2max work, as @Helvellyn recommended. Normally you should be able to push those 5min intervals at around VO2max power (but not if it is a shorter rest). If it was close to your VO2max, and your true FTP is 321w, then your FTP is 91,7% of your VO2max (this is most likely not the case unless you have a very low VLamax). This again indicates that you are at your ceiling. As I see it from the limited information at hand, you need to try to push your VO2max up. You should so this before you get specific.
This sounds like an ambitious goal, but I like ambitious goals. The first step towards acheiving this goal is to believe that you can do it, and filter out those that say it is not doable. If you don’t believe in it you wont make it.
He will likely need to up the frequency of his intense workouts, but level 4 intervals are the way to go, not level 5.
Here’s a common plan among age-group TTers that I know:
M: 1 h level 2
T: 1 h w/ level 4 intervals
W: 1 h level 2
Th: 1 h w/ level 4 intervals
F: 1 h level 2
Sa: TT race (1-1.5 h total)
Su: 2 h level 2
ETA: If somebody finds themselves stagnating on a steady diet of longer level 4 intervals, there are always ways of spicing things up while still keeping the focus on muscular metabolic fitness. E.g., 8 x 5 min @ slightly over FTP, 1 min recovery.
