40g carbs during a 1h20min ride is appropriate for most folks even in a fat loss diet phase.
Yep.
SIS gels have 22 grams of carbs so if you are mixing 40 grams of carbs from sugar water then the calories will be double. Carbs are 4 calories/gram so unless a product adds something else (fat or protein) there isn’t going to be a significant calorie difference in any sports drink product when equalized for grams of carbohydrate.
Also, your workout was likely over 700 cals +/- burned so you can work around the 160 calories from your drink. If you want to keep is consistent then just reduce to match the SIS gel.
Has anybody tried mixing apple cider vinegar in the sugar water? It blows my mind (not hard to do) sweet sour helps 
Apple cider vinegar…blackcurrant squash…WTH? You heathens!!
Blood, sweat, and/or tears should be the only flavours you add to your sugar water!
This and others - all fair points thanks. I know not to diet on the bike, but I struggle to eat less that 2000 cals a day without feeling uncomfortable, and usually use my long weekend rides as a natural calorie deficit.
That said, this effort was 888 cals. I ended the day 540 in deficit with macros at 247g carbs, 94g fat and 115g protein over a total of 2,502 calories, all according to MfP. I’d fuelled the workout ok, had good recovery and wasn’t hungry at bed time.
Goofed my concentrate bottle this morning. Instead of 165g of glu and 85 of fru for 2hrs I swapped the ratio. Was fine for the bike but so many side cramps on my brick run right after
I’ve read much okay maybe bits of this thread (but not the RP endurance book yet).
So with incomplete knowlege and training (last day of SSB MV 1 the second time around) I set off on a 120 km ride. I was however carrying a full load of carbs for the ride at about 75g per hour.
I have been faffing around doing many metric centuries over the years and used to wilt a bit towards the end.
Not yesterday. I felt very good through the ride, stayed more or less on my time targets and had enough in the tank to ride at about threshold for the last twenty kays. That’s new. I’ll take that. Will see how it goes when I do this route again after the full cycle from ssb through build and century.
Will also wonder if I overdid it, + 1 kg on the scales and ramp test tomorrow. Legs etc do feel fine
GR
This is just a general appreciation post for @ambermalika and @Dr_Alex_Harrison and everyone else here who introduced me to the benefits of fuelling properly. I just completed a 650 km trans-Alp Audax on an 8% sugar and electrolyte solution, haribos and real food at the controls. I managed to consume 5000+ kcal per day and never felt I ran out of energy. I felt sick once when it was very hot - not really clear why - but this was a lot better than in previous events when I felt nauseous a lot. Every time my mood dropped, I just loaded another sweet or drank more and it invariably helped. I also think it really contributed to me being able to keep my power output reasonably consistent. I chatted to others who said ‘haha you can’t possibly do this ride on haribos, you need real food’ and I thought ‘nope, sugar is my friend’. So thanks everyone for putting some really helpful information on this forum.
I don’t like to take in calories on rides under 2-3 hours, and I don’t gel during trainer sessions (if that wrapper goes on the floor, the dog will ingest it).
But, I’m a big believer in adequately eating during the day. I usually work out at 4:30PM, and between 6:30AM and 1PM I’ll tuck in a little over 2500 calories. Workouts are 1500kj. I have enough stored glycogen to manage that.
A coach told me in 1984 to 1) get enough calories each day (BMR + training) and 2) eat 60% CHO and then equal amounts of PRO and FAT. It works.
Is this really that simple? I’ve been using Beta Fuel, and was thinking of ordering maltodextrin and fructose to mimic the formula. Can I get away with just sugar? Is there any advantage of doing the malto/fuctose mix?
I think in many cases it can be - I have moved to about an 8-10% sucrose solution (1/2 strength gatorade powder for flavor + sucrose + electrolytes) and that has been fine for me. It is very, very sweet, but I have gotten used to it - not great flavor, but not bad either. This has been working for me on the trainer and outdoors on rides from 1-5 hours.
Maltodextrin is nice in that it is not sweet, but I think once you add in the right amount of fructose you end up with something quite sweet from just that. (edited out incorrect speculation regarding osmolality.)
I think at some level places selling bags of sugar, salt and some flavoring for $40 (33.4 oz, 948g seriously, who picked this size???) likely want to show something other than just ‘sucrose’ as the main ingredient, since that bag has less than $1 of sucrose in it at retail, small bag prices.
Yes.
Not if you’re doing 1:1 glucose:fructose ratio overall.
Only advantage of doing maltodextrin is if you plan to deviate from 1:1
Osmolarity of 1:1 glucose:fructose from sucrose is lower than maltodextrin:fructose 1:1 (and obviously 50% lower than if doing dextrose:fructose 1:1) in a beverage. The above statement assumes an average maltodextrin strand length of 10 glucose subunits, which is pretty generous unless you’re specifically buying high strand length maltodextrin.
Sweetness of 1:1 malto:fruc is virtually identical to straight sucrose.
You can reduce sweetness, and reduce osmolarity if you’re okay with a slight shift towards 2:1 glucose:fructose ratio.
I would make any shift in that direction very subtle. ie. 1:0.8 glucose:fructose ratio, if the goal is to maximize carb intake rate while minimizing gut issue risk.
In case it’s informative: I personally don’t ever buy maltodextrin, even for my wife whose training and performance I take very seriously. (she’s a pro cyclist & pro triathlete).
I second that!
My pleasure.
And what about electrolytes? In Europe I haven’t found easy access to sodium citrate. I was thinking about adding something like the Bulk electrolyte mix to it. Does it mess up the osmolality?
No it was a mixture of High5 and some own brand stuff I found in a drug store when I realised I was out of high5 and didn’t have enough time to order online. It was basically the same mix though. I have to have some malto included because I don’t tolerate mixes that have only glucose.
Good news. Osmolarity of solution matters much less than energy density / carb concentration. Unless you’re targeting really high sodium consumption rates and concentrations per unit volume of fluid, you’ll probably be fine. You’ll know by whether you get gut cramps or not. If no gut cramps, try more sodium, if needed.
Could I ask, and sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere or is considered off topic, the mix to water solution recommendations between a standard 2:1 drink mix and something like beta fuel. From what I can see there a 2 supposed benefits, the ability to absorb more per hour but also states the ability to have more fuel in less water ratio.
I kind of get the idea the ratio may be beneficial for absorption, but when it comes to water concentration dependant in the ratio is that a big point? I know you need water but does the percentage of water in conjunction to the differing ratios matter? And either way, if you use either ratio enough could you just train more absorption?
I was only wondering as I have a bunch of 2:1 mix and as it gets colder heat I was thinking of just sticking it all as a strong mix in one bottle, but if I’d just need to chase with water from another bottle no real point!
How do you convince someone to abandon 16/8 fasting and take in some dang carbs?
Got a friend who’s regularly having poor workout performance. Every interval ride he will fade at least 10-15% by the end. His reaction is that he’s simply weak and needs to get more fit.
I try to tell him he should target at least 300c/hr (185lbs) every workout to keep himself fueled for the weeks worth of workouts. He’s shown that he’s performing when he does do this but just reverts back to his ways.
He posted a morning workout yesterday 2x20 @85% which should have been super doable after achieving 30min straight at ftp without fade and I bet he didn’t eat anything.
Tell him don’t get “stuck on stupid”.
