OK, good deal. This new version is what I consider to be more “active” even in the stiff setting than the original design. Some is the actual spring forces, but much is the very big difference in handlebar motion.
One trick I didn’t mention in that video:
Think about controlling the lean with the new PLUS model by an arm/hand direction that roughly matches the fork angle. There is a push/pull or even a stiffening that works best when it aligns with that fork angle, because that is the geometry hiding within the mechanics of the PLUS.
Not the best picture, but trying to visualize the direction of motion and/or stiffness you can use to control the motion.
I had the pull to the left sensation as well. I ended up using some wooden wedges under that side of both front and rear to level everything, and I have the front section rotated slightly to the left as well (to push me right and compensate for the left lean)
Overall I don’t think I’d review the system all that highly. I have it working for me but the fiddle factor is high: I have a lot of friends who would have been too annoyed to give it the time to get the setup right for proper feel. It might be the best feeling motion system out there, but for many I would bet it’s not the right system.
And the front section loosened up for the third time during last night’s race, which was an uncomfortable feeling sprinting at the end of the race. I’ve tightened the four screws several times now and they eventually loosen again. I re-applied blue loctite when I re-did them last night, hopefully that does the trick.
Have you used any other rocker plates or motion systems? I ask because the typical rocker plate with inflatable springs has it’s own teething issues. Getting the pressures and placement of the springs to match a person’s expectation and preference also takes time and effort.
About the only instant setup rocker is a rib style rocker that uses gravity and rider mass for centering effort. There is no adjustment so what you get at the start is all you get. Even with these, things like needing a flat and level floor are requirements to have it operate properly.
Essentially, any motion setup will require some initial conditions (flat floor is common) and some setup time to dial it in for each rider.
That’s true and why it’s great to have the range of options we have when looking at all those available.
I do agree that the E-Flex has an additional setup issue with the separated front & rear sections. But I have solved that for my needs with the bridge design I shared. This might not be ideal for those riders that find a slight twist in the front section is the right solution for them, but even that may be helped and held in place with a bridge.
Again, not something for everyone, but I find it very rewarding compared to the many other options I have built & tested over the years. Considering that some riders are happy with simple foam blocks under trainer feet, there is a huge range in desires and preferences.
This is a bit disconcerting, and to add at the end of my ride yesterday I found a couple of loose screws on the floor(?!). I’ve yet to see where they fell from, got sidetracked and busy after the ride to investigate.
My left leaning sensation was really bad at the end of the ride, plus I was just fatigued from it, so I just lept off.
Is there a possibility that the flywheel has too much inertia (and one of the heaviest components on the trainer) which may help to pull the bike left? Just a speculation.
Today I’ll do some investigation work on the unit.
Yeah, that’s the case with my setup. I have sandbags on the front frame to keep it in place. Works great.
I rode again this morning and will go back on my review a bit (I’ve ridden it a lot and do like it overall but was maybe a bit too peeved by the loose screws after last night). It’s a really nice system once it’s dialed. I’d still hesitate to recommend it for friends who might not have the patience/desire to make lots of minor tweaks but it sounds like that’s common with other rocker plates too (I’ve only used foam under trainer legs for motion in the past).
I’m thinking that might explain your left leaning sensation, if it was really bad. There are four screws on the front that hold the main vertical support beam in place: if that’s loose you’d have much less support and any lean would be greatly amplified.
Yeah, I forgot to address the screw issue above. It is real and I have experienced it as well. Mine backed out after the first ride, and again on the 2nd. I add thread locker and got them with a bit extra torque and they have been good since then.
But it is a legit concern as there will be an ugly failure if enough of them get loose and back out. I was honestly surprised to see that connection when I got the test unit, but other than those early torque issues, it worked well enough that I forgot about it. I happened to check them last month during some other testing and they were still good, so I think it’s possible to get them locked, but it takes the locker and some good torque.
I understand why he uses those smaller screws in conjunction with the 1/8" wall tubing, but it is an issue that may be worthy of a refinement.
Definitely poke around and find there those screws came from. As mentioned, if you have loose tower screws, it will never feel right. Having that wiggle around will lead to inconsistent action and is just plain risky.
If they are flat head screws, I’d bet they are from the main tower mount screws at the bottom middle of the front section. If you can’t track them down, let us know and we will get you sorted.
I’ve got the first gen system, and it really didn’t need much tweaking. First thing I learned was to pick up the handlebars and straighten the front end. Once done, it really didn’t move much because its on a (Wahoo) mat. The only time the front end needed adjusting was if I got a little rowdy with sprints. The second thing I learned was to mount it like a bike because its going to move - because I leave the front end unlocked.
Did anyone on this thread report the screw issue to InsideRide?
I haven’t used it but my guess is that gen1 is a lot less fiddly, since there’s no lean (edit: in the front unit). I know one elite level Zwift racer who still prefers gen1 even after trying gen2, but the lean is what I was really after.
I’d have to re-check my old emails, but I do think I mentioned it to Larry back then.
There is a specific note in the instructions about the thread locker, getting them “very firm” and then checking those screws after the first ride. So they have tried to cover it from what I see.
There is ‘lean’ in both units. The key difference between them is the relationship of steering angle to lean angle. Original takes LOTS of steering angle to get lean, while the new model is far less steering angle for the same lean angle.
I have seen more than a few people have issues with the alignment and feeling off with the original unit too. I also fought with it at times and found a bridge was the solution there as it still is with the new model.
I can understand that, especially if someone wants that more immediate steering control. That is the difference I tried to highlight in my comparison video. Each has pros/cons and a different feel for sure.
Right, I should have clarified. The V2 has a front unit that leans as well as rotates. I thought the V1 only rotates at the front, which creates the lean in the rear unit and therefore the bike. Am I wrong about that?
You are totally right and I was just misunderstanding your focus.
The new front does “lean” at the fork mount as the main motion, and the coupling up front then forces the fork/bars to turn on that other pivot.
The original is a pure flat turn on a single pivot with no lean at that point. That flat turn coupled to the fork and the way the rear section rotates forces the bike frame (and bars/fork to a limited degree) to lean as it rotates on the axle mount.
Here are the two holes that had the screws back out and fall of the unit. One of those holes feels stripped so the screw cannot hold.
I’ll have to contact E-flex…such a bummer.
Wow, I would not have expected that location. I actually did a full screw check back when I checked the tower ones and those (along with all the others) were tight for me.
I will say, the lack of those being in place would likely end up causing a leaning issue that you described. I think there is a gap under that cross tube, so a lack of screws there could allow that tube to sag to a point it contacts the vertical tube. It could also lift (and may be ‘stuck’ that way from the pic) and be a lean in the other direction. That might be a couple degrees of lean and would feel odd if that all is what happened. Either way it moves, that motion is not good and would alter the ride feel in a bad way.
