When we do get back to racing in 2021, what is the percentage of our FTP that we should shoot for both the full and half Ironman distances on the bike? I am assuming it would be our normalized power numbers on the bike since the courses vary in elevation.
Thanks so much for an incredible product, love that you keep improving the product every day. Cheers! Pete
IIRC, the general rule of thumb is:
70.3: ~75-80%
140.6: ~70-75%
Your experience and strengths will alter those percentages…I have done 70.3’s over 80% and still been able to run well, but the bike was my strength.
These charts are floating around the net and a pretty decent guide. Definitely want to try out whatever target you set in training and adjust based on your strengths and weaknesses.
so just to confirm. the above charts are showing the TSS for each event’s bike?
I take a comparable NP divided by FTP and get a percentage. Then look at the appropriate column. the number in the box is the expected TSS for that time?
but what good does that do me in preparation?
From the source.
The idea is that there’s a cap on how much TSS you can accumulate on the bike and still run decently. You would use these charts to see how riding at different IF (using something like BestBikeSplit) would affect your TSS and if it puts you in the theoretical “red”. Obviously this is just a guide so use it as a starting point and try it out in training.
It helps alot with your preperation. Knowing the TSS of your bike will help set up your long rides and ensuring you do enough long rides meeting your TSS goal and higher. Also, one step harder, is finding out your KJs for the IM Bike and hitting those numbers in training 2-3x before the event.
IME, most triathlete do not do enough long rides at and harder than their TSS and KJ budget and their race day ride ends up being their harder ride.
Also, these are guidelines. IMO you need to play it on the conservative side depending on your ability due to glycogen depletion. The best way is to do 2-3 IM simulation like days with longer runs OTB to see if your pacing and nutrition plan is appropriate. This is also, IME, something most triathletes don’t do enough of.
What is your current FTP in w/kg? What IM are you planning on doing?
Fantastic advice, I appreciate this kind of help, I think for me the nutrition is key so I am experimenting now with eating properly on the bike and not over drinking like I have done in the past. This will give me some good guides to measure the effort on the bike.
I am a MOPer with a little over 3w/kg, hopefully higher in October for IM California.
oof. another metric i need to stress over. So if I’m 1 hour into a 6 hour bike, how could I possibly estimate what my bike leg’s TSS is going to be (or adjust my power to hit that goal TSS)?
I understand having a goal wattage that is a percentage of my FTP. i dont understand how you can predict your overall TSS mid-bike.
Hi, welcome and maybe you’d be best moving this into the Ironman training thread?
You don’t need to concern yourself with TSS during the race; just use it for planning before. If you think the bike course will take you 6 hours, look at the charts above and select a TSS that is in the right range. I am assuming you are a first timer, so 6 hours in the dark grey would give you a target TSS of 269-286 which corresponds to an IF of 67-69% (of FTP). But this is just the starting point! Now you have to get out there and log some longer rides near this IF and make sure it works for YOU and your nutrition plan.
FWIW, I have found the tables to be spot on for me.
So much THIS…your race day ride should feel almost easy compared to your training rides. Drives me insane when I see athletes saying “Oh, I’m doing my long ride at my IM pace”. NO…you should be doing those rides at a higher intensity than your planned race pace. That let’s you set-up your run on race day.
I’ve done a full IM at .82 IF (300 TSS), and a half at .92 (187 TSS). Didn’t walk any of the runs and they certainly weren’t spectacular (3:19 and 1:27), but based off my training splits I don’t know that I could’ve done much better if I had eased off the bike pace a bunch. Running mileage/training had been hampered by injury, which was a bigger factor imho. With that said, I have a solid background in endurance cycling…so being on the bike for 4.5hrs and/or going pretty darn hard for 2hrs was kind of a regular weekly thing. YMMV
With that said, I don’t know how much I agree with the post above me. Doing your long rides at a higher intensity than race pace (and potentially also incorporating some sort of brick to get used to running off a long bike) would be CRUSHING. I can’t go out and do rides at .8+ IF for 3-4hrs and then accomplish anything productive for 2+ days after. I don’t know if I even could do that at the end of a long week of IM training.
The Friel Charts above are a good guideline. General rule of thumb for 70.3 is 0.7-0.8 IF, the faster you are on the bike and the more confident you are in your run the higher you can go above 0.8.
It also depends on your ability to pace and to adjust your effort mid-race. A 0.8 IF evenly paced is much more forgiving than having to deal with a VI of 1.2 or greater. Also, some days you feel strong, others you don’t, pushing the upper limit of IF requires the ability to adjust mid race, to know when you can push and when it might be better to back off.
I’ve began riding around 0.74 when I first took up 70.3 racing a few years ago, this year I rode 0.82 and 0.83 followed up with two sub90 runs, so definitely not overbiked.
TSS = IF^2 x time in hours.
If you have a target time of 6 hours and a target wattage (need to convert this into a % of FTP), then you know what your TSS will be.
Hi,
I’ve come across this thread when looking for ideal IF for 70.3. I do know it’s an old one but just in case someone is looking for the same idea I have been I think there is one fundamental issue with those tables. It does not take the power to speed relation at all.
Let’s assume my wife’s FTP is 125W and she is planning to do 70.3. If we approached conservatively and she was riding at 102W resulting in 165 TSS I don’t think with that power she can make the bike split in 2h 30mins.
Another issue being result of that is that by looking at those charts, increasing your FTP and riding at the same IF would give you the same time which is not true. If you increased your FTP, your speed would have increased too and if you rode at the same IF it would give you better time in the race.
It is definitely more accurate for higher FTPs and stronger riders but keep that in mind when planning your race.
Thanks
With a 125w FTP, I would think getting anywhere close to a 2.5 hr bike split is going to be a challenge, unless she is very petite and extremely aero.
But with bike legs, you shouldn’t be riding to certain time splits….a proper bike leg is based on NP and IF. Let the bike split be the result of proper pacing, not an arbitrary goal time.
That was exactly my point, but her TSS would match the table for 2.5 hr bike leg and that’s why I said the table does not work as expected.
Agreed. My comment was only to explain even if you produced as many TSS as listed in the table it won’t give you that time, and that’s talking about power only, not even mentioning temperature, elevation, etc.
Thanks
It’s not a predictive table, so it’s not an issue with the table, it’s an issue with the person viewing it.
The table is useful if you have raced before, and have a good idea of your times. You can then use this to help decide easing up on the bike and by how much.
Overall if you are doing IM 70.3 your IF target is generally accepted to be 0.75-0.85 depending how strong you are on the bike. It scales up, because (to your point) the faster you are, the harder you can go as you have less time on the bike.
Correct….it is an analytic table, not predictive.
“….depending on how strong you are on the bike”
Some might say, more importantly: depending on how strong you are on the RUN. This will more heavily influence your bike effort.
(Sorry for the word salad. Hope I got the point across)
