Something very strange going on here - not sure it has anything to do with AT … anything over level 5 should be very hard… sounds like your FTP is set really low.
Do you mind posting links to your ramp test and a recent workout?
Id definitely reach out to support too.
My FTP prior was 208 before I took the TR ramp test. It was an estimate based on best 20 min. avg. power from outdoor rides.
I took the initial TR ramp test and was at 215.
Going to re-take the ramp test soon and see what it estimates now vs. waiting a few more weeks. I’m not completely fresh, but still think it’s probably most likely that I sucked at the first FTP vs. an actual hardware (or software) issue. I’ve since gotten a bike fit and gotten more used to the trainer.
I’ll also probably leave the trainer in Erg mode this time vs. resistance as I’ve gotten more used to that setting than when I first got the Kickr and may change from my Stages PM to the Kickr for the test, since the Kickr more consistently follows the ramps in output.
I’ve been using TR for less than a month, after training elsewhere. Your description is so far removed from my experience that I can only imagine that either your kit is not fully functioning, your software is mis-configured or your FTP test was very inaccurate.
^^^^ agreed! While the phase of training you’re in just may not feel challenging because of your prior fitness leading into your plan, it wouldn’t hurt to check in with the team at support@trainerroad.com so they can look at the full scope of your plan, adaptations, internal ride log, and devices/settings/firmware updates to see if something is amiss. 
Absolute rookie question coming up (I’ve been riding on that other platform for a while)…
Do I need to ‘do’ anything after my rides for Adaptive Training to work? I’ve seen posts about surveys and rating workouts but have never been given that option. I also don’t have any other choices of workouts on my plan, only on the train now feature on the front page.
Worth noting - only just coming towards the end of my first week of riding with TR again.
Thanks for any guidance!
If you’re not getting surveys, you probably don’t have Adaptive Training enabled in your settings. I recently setup an account for my wife and forgot to turn it on (because she just uses Train Now). One day I made a comment about “after ride survey” and she just looked at me funny and that’s when I remembered that I had missed a step.
That was an FTP estimate based 20 min power, not that 208 was the 20 min max power itself.
The “real” FTP test (ramp test) was 215 on TR.
Got it.
Here’s a good ‘getting started’ resource:
Please let the team know at support@trainerroad.com if you have any questions or need a second look at anything.
I agree with everyone else, contact support and your FTP is WAY off. I just looked at what a 5.0 vo2 max is and its stuff like 4 sets of 6x1min @120. Not world endingly hard stuff but it will certainly get your HR up to something threshold-ish or more by the end of each set.
Also, quit worrying about heart rate. Its of dubious usefulness when you have some experience, but its flat out useless as a beginner. Do the ramp test and go till you die, then do 3 or 4 more 10 second chunks before you physically cant push the pedals any more. The last 3 minutes should be quite uncomfortable. The last minute should be the only thing you can focus on in the entire world.
If you find the ramp tests just dont work for you, raise your ftp by 5%. Do a threshold, a ss and a vo2 workout over 5 days. If you were not questioning your ability to finish at least 1 of those at the 30% complete mark, raise your ftp another 5% the next week. Keep doing that till you cant finish the workouts or you win a tour. Once either of those things happen back it off by 2% and train from there.
For me, personally, over unders are the test. If your ftp is set just a few points low they are really not that bad. If you slipped and your ftp is set just a little bit high they go from really hard to not actually possible pretty quick.
Ran a new ramp test after this weekend on tired legs and got an FTP of 250 (vs. the prior 215).
I hit a new personal best of 248 watts for 20 min. outside this weekend on a 50 mile endurance ride @ 135 bpm, so my Garmin was pointing me in that direction.
I bailed early on the ramp test as after ~28-29 min., I was just not mentally there to continue, but points to my initial ramp test FTP being low vs. setup or software issues.
agreed over unders are a really good metric for whether your ftp is right or not. the first set isn’t always the right judge because you’re fresh and your anaerobic abilities can supplement, but second set you should be really just on the edge.
You need to recalibrate what you’re doing a bit. First of all, if you’re hitting a 20 min PB in a ride then it’s not an endurance ride yea? Just because it’s long doesn’t make it ‘endurance’. Endurance is a zone, not a length. It’s used synonymously, but what qualifies as ‘endurance’ in terms of time is variable, whereas the zone stays reasonably constant. When you’re trying to check power, you need to do it in controlled circumstances. If you’re hitting numbers beyond your ftp regularly then flat out, that just isn’t your FTP.
While it is good to have an idea of where it should land, if you’re doing an FTP test do it once right, rather than 2, 3, or 4 times where all are wrong but the last one. Do them with at least a day or two of recovery, DEFINITELY not when your legs are tired. Don’t count a pb in a ride as an FTP test either. Sure I could knock out a big 20 min effort after 2+ hrs of riding, but would I be doing my best? Of course not.
The point of an FTP test is to set yourself up for success in a training block, do them wrong, like has happened, and you’re just wasting your time training in the wrong zones as is evidenced by your original question. A few W’s off isn’t the end of the world, but 5-10+ W is going to cause you problems.
Finally, your heart rate is meaningless to anyone but yourself. The only zone I really thing matters for most of us amateurs is our threshold, the cross between sustainable and pedaling on ‘borrowed time’. Yes, the other zone transitions matter, but as far as what I consider, “actionable”, you’re not going to really make many (any?) training changes outside of whether you consider whether a certain workout should or shouldn’t cross this threshold. The data needed to make other informed decisions generally need a controlled and lab testing environment.
Definitely something wrong here unless you meant to type 18-19 min. If your FTP was anywhere near accurate then by 20mins you’d be screaming for it to stop!
Another one for over-unders being a good “test” of whether your FTP is in the right ball park. After the first set, about halfway during each “under” you should have the feeling that your legs are recovering and you can go again. Here’s one from last year - https://www.trainerroad.com/app/career/bobw/rides/84363732-palisade. See the notes about FTP: I could also have increased the FTP for the workout by 1-2%. My next ramp test pushed my FTP by that amount. That just shows that after a while you get to know what a workout (or class of workouts) should feel like and you know whether to push things or rein them in. That does take time though.
Oh yeah, there’s no such thing as an “easy” VO2max workout especially one give 5.0. Here’s my attempt at one given 5.6, https://www.trainerroad.com/app/career/bobw/rides/86000405-pisgah note my MHR is around 180bpm and I reached around 166bpm.
It’s expected. We already wrote multiple times his FTP was assessed too low on initial test. The new ramp test is done off the starting levels of his incorrectly low FTP test, and thus has him overshoot a full 10min until he needs to quit.
FWIW this problem is as old as indoor training and has nothing to do with AT.
Did you bail early now in the second test? In that case I’d recommend to do it again. You can probably do it again just a day later.
You can also play your FTP manually if you “failed” a ramp test but with your history above it would be really valuable for you to land about right and not keep wondering for weeks on end.
Also fully agree with @triggerdog post.
Yes, I quit after 28 min and change (not 18), but feel like I should’ve and could’ve kept going a while longer. Not sure if they ever truly “end” a ramp test unless you quit? On a shorter duration test and being a bit fresher, I’m positive I could do a little better than where I tested out.
However, I mistakenly did a tempo workout last night at 6.4 progression level called Beech +1 (which was retained from my prior manual additions) and it was definitely closer to correct with my new ~+16% FTP than before and more what I would perceive to be moderate to somewhat challenging vs. easy.
IMHO you would have been better served with a test around 20 minutes long - which means bumping up your FTP before doing the ramp test.
I think the name “Ramp Test” is misleading, at least in English. The word Test implies pass or fail whereas really it’s an assessment as you can never “pass” it, you just do as good as you can.
Jumping from 215W to 250W with so little “training” between the two, ahem, tests would indicate that the first was way off. As above, find an over-under workout, something like McAdie-2 would be a good candidate. If your FTP is set too high, it will feel hard as you’ll be doing 9 minutes at above your true FTP. Conversely if it’s too low then each set will feel relatively easy. It’s one of those: “you’ll know when it’s right” sort of things.
Also don’t feel like every workout should smash you. That’s not the idea, each workout should just stretch you a little bit but leave you ready for the next one. AT should finesse this as over time it will learn how quickly to push your progression rather than relying on a “one size fits all” approach.
Do another ramp test. Using a TR plan doesn’t mean you’re handcuffed to the recommended calendar. You can still make adjustments, and double check your calibration any time. One of the selling points of using the ramp test is that you can throw one in anytime you think your FTP is set too high or too low.
Hey all. I’ve just returned to TR after an injury. I’ve looked at SSBI Low which is my go to for this time of year and every workout is either ‘Breakthroughs’ or ‘Not Recommended’. Has anyone else got this? Is it normal???