I know it’s been addressed before and shrugged off like it doesn’t make a big difference and maybe that’s so, but when I’m in a workout and need to hit 360 for x amount of minutes then the software should enable that to happen. Consistently hitting 345 or lower IS a big difference. The reason I train inside is to be precise and not have to do anything except pedal to hit my targets.
Rant over. But really here’s what I see could help. There is obviously something in the software trying to control this aspect. I understand changes in cadence impact it and I keep that as constant as possible but the tendency of the software is to error on the lower side. It’s never hovering at 365 it’s hitting 360 occasionally and hovering between 350-355 so with the expected lag at the beginning of 3-5 seconds I get 345 on average. Why not enable a feature to error on the higher side? Of course I can manipulate the software by increasing the percentage but I shouldn’t have to do that. Increasing 5-6% so I can hit the original target isn’t a good solution even though it works. I have top of the line trainer and power meter so it’s either me or the software. Let’s give some options here instead of just blaming me or telling me that it doesn’t matter that I miss my target by 15 watts every time.
360? That’s just an example. The workout I did today had 315, 330, 360 and 390 all as targets and they were all off. The reason I pay for this software is to be accurate and hit the targets.
I could but not relevant to what I’m asking. It seems they are doing something new on PC but I’ll wait for iOS and see if it helps. It’s just frustrating when all this technology can’t work as intended. It’s a known issue though and not a problem with my setup.
I have not noticed this issue with my workouts ( using iOS on an iPad). Sometimes I might be 1 or maybe 2% low but mostly I have been right on when using erg for VO2
When I have had the issue in the past (2-3 times) it came down to changes in cadence when I enter an interval and how my cadence changes during intervals between intervals. I have only noticed it with VO2 intervals. For example, if my cadence increases by 5-10rpm over the course of the first two intervals and then my cadence remains constant in the third / fourth intervals I will find the power drops off (erg mode w/ power match.) Once I remind myself to maintain a steady cadence it is usually resolved in the 5th interval. I suspect there is some adaption occurring and it was anticipating my cadence changes and decreased resistance, which became a temporary problem because my behavior did not change as anticipated. It probably doesn’t help that I forget to spin down my trainer on a regular basis.
I suspect it is less of an issue in longer intervals because there are more opportunities to correct and power is not as high so I am more likely to maintain a stable cadence. While frustrating at the time, once I stabilized my behavior TR got me back to target power.
Sounds like a trainer limitation? There’s so many different kinds and a lot of them have very coarse resistance level. I’d go insane if I had to deal with shifting gears to stay above the trainer floor but below the trainer ceiling. Sounds like your trainer can give, eg, 345 or 375, at the cadence/gear combo you were using, but not the 360 you were supposed to target?
I never have this issue with my neo. Maybe 10 watts low on 15-20s intervals, but it’s because the resistance is still ramping up at the start of the interval, but it drops a little bit into the recovery section, so actually work done is fine, it’s just the analysis window slid a little*. The longer the interval (certainly anything measured in minutes), I accurately hit the target (within a watt or 2)
*I’ve heard there’s a feature in the works to accommodate trainer specific ramp rates so even this will go away.
What trainer are you using? Are you in ERG mode, using powermatch, something else? If you normally use ERG, can you hit your targets consistently when in standard mode (not ERG)? When doing less intensity (ie Sweet Spot) is your output wattage more inline with the target?
I could be wrong but my understanding of ERG is that the software sends a signal to be at X watts and it’s up to the trainer to maintain the specified wattage. I believe TR makes some adjustments to timing and intensity at the initiation of intervals to provide better feel but that’s only for a second or two. The rest of the interval isn’t affected and the signal should be at the prescribed intensity.
My Erg with iOS is dead on. Occasionally it will go 5w low or high but it will compensate for it so the average is the same as intended workout. Power meters are 1.5-2% accurate. I wouldn’t worry about it being a few watts too low.
So I’m assuming you’re using PowerMatch then. I had similar experiences and gave up on PowerMatch. The new version (only available on desktop currently) is a world apart. I had the same issue you’re having, it’d either hover above or below the power target, which lead to me trying to alter my cadence a bit to get it on target, which usually just made things worse. The new version is very responsive (and can be adjusted as well). Now I don’t even have to think about it, I just ride.
It’s a known issue clearly as they have been working on changing it and have done just as much on the PC side, (with great success it sounds) so will wait for the iOS to catch up and just bump up the percentages to adjust manually.
I’m not sure that is correct. What is described there doesn’t sound like addressing an issue where you are chronically under your targets by a significant %. Obviously we’d need someone from the TR team to weigh in on what they’ve corrected but I’m not positive they are doing what you’re hoping for there.
Could you share a link to a ride you’ve done that experienced the problem?
I think it could be something with your setup. Here is a link to Baird +6 that I did a couple weeks ago. Every 90 second interval was within 7 watts of target, most were within 3 watts.
Are you referring to the average power for the interval shown at the end of the interval. If so, it takes some time for the trainer to go from 50% of FTP to whatever 120% of FTP. I don’t think you would want it to be instant because it would be very harsh. Given that, the shorter the interval, aka VO2, that average will be skewed down because that represents a larger percentage of the interval. It may only take 3-4 seconds, but it’s still a significant number if the interval is only 30 seconds long. And this will never be higher than the target as you say because you are always starting from a lower number.
Figured I’d add a screenshot of brasted from yesterday. These are short 30s intervals and that’s more than enough time for a a gen1 neo to dial in the correct resistance. I think I’m geared at 46/15 or so.
You can see I often have a bit of spike on the initial ramp-up as I try to maintain cadence (but fail) through the initial increase. So the resistance slightly overshoots, and as I get my cadence back up the power goes slightly high before a very small resistance decrease puts me in line. 5 rpms either way is enough to pretty radically alter the power you’re putting out, necessitating the ERG to tweak the resistance on you.
The pathological case here is the “ERG spiral of death”, where your cadence is constantly slowing and ultimately the torque required to turn the pedals exceeds your ability to keep going.
Depending on your trainer you maybe find a high or low gear gives you slightly more flexibility with your cadence before the ERG decides to intervene.
