Leadville 2023 Race Thread

Racing
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I’m in the same boat. 3 Minutes and 2 Seconds out of green, and 100% had green fitness. But, not going to sweat it.

I will say for Lutsen though, this was a partially new course this year where they were estimating without any past results on this route. The corrals were estimates without any past data, Not sure if that makes it more likely they adjust or not. They may just roll with it.

I’m in Leadville now, at the camp next weekend, was thinking I’ll see who’s there and do a little asking around.

Anyone else at the front of purple - hope we can paceline it together to Twin Lakes!

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Missed this thread previously, but I got a lottery spot in the 22 Austin Rattler. Missed out on the red corral by 27 seconds…Should have been keeping a better eye on elapsed time so Green is where I’ll be.

I’ve got a 317 FTP right now, but I’m a bigger dude ~205 lbs. My target is anything sub 9.

I do hope to sync up with some sort of paceline on the way back from Twin Lakes, but we shall see!

Bring the PAIN!!

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Yeah, everyone talks about getting in a good group on the way out to twin lakes, but coming back can be just as critical since folks are getting tired and there is often a headwind. There are usually groups on the road, but it takes some luck to get with a good group that deep into the race.

You’ll be fine in green, you won’t hit any congestion going at a ~9hour pace from that corral. If that’s a sea level FTP, sub 9 will be a tall order. Not saying it can’t be done and there are places where raw watts matter as much as w/kg. I’ve been slightly over 4w/kg on 2 tries and I’ve got one big buckle (barely) and one little one. For me, I need to have near perfect execution and motivation for a shot at sub 9. Here’s a 9 hour pacing chart with climbing power targets and expected NP throughout the day (for ~165lbs). Edit - keep in mind those are power numbers at altitude, I’ve found that I lose about 17% off my sea level power (and more at the high points on the course).

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Here’s one with just the time splits -

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Thanks for those. I put together some similar splits out of bestbikesplit adjusting for my training elevation of right at 2k feet for the course. I realize it is below the optimal w/kg for sub nine as I’ve seen, but it’s seems at least possible.

Just going to leave it all on course and see how it goes!

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Just back from a whirlwind week and a half. Drove Boston to Lutsen, raced Lutsen (Purple corral!), then Lutsen to Leadville. Worked for 3-4 days getting used to the altitude, rode the whole course over two days as part of the camp (Except the top of the Goat Trail on Columbine because of snow). Drove home Sunday/Monday and back yesterday evening.

Getting out to ride the course and experience it was TREMENDOUSLY helpful.

Altitude was not an issue for me personally. I basically have to discount my FTP by 17-20% (more as I go up Columbine and maybe top of Powerline/Sugarloaf, but that didn’t seem to impact my endurance zone. I still felt like I could go all day if I kept it under wraps at my normal 180-200W. Even for me getting up to where we turned around on Columbine after the first section of Goat Trail (maybe 1.5 mi from Summit?) I was feeling fine if I paced myself and was still able to recover well after the hard section.

There are some parts of the course that are an absolute kick in the teeth. The bottom of powerline is obvious, would have been a 4-5 minute VO2 Max interval that would have crushed me without gaining much if any time, so walked that section after riding the switchback. The little soft sand turn then chunky section turning up onto the Boulevard climb was another one. At that point, I was like IS THIS REALLY NECESSARY :rofl:

4W/KG is going to be a HARD day to go sub 9. I still think it’s possible, but the hard part for me is I don’t know how I’m going to hold up pushing it for 9 hours, and I think everything will have to go right. Will have to see. I think what I’m finding is it’s absolutely critical for me to keep myself under my altitude adjusted threshold as much as possible, because I seem to recover well and I’m a diesel on the flats and the easy climbs. Going back up Pipeline, hagermann down to the bottom then up to carter aid and then again on the boulevard I was still feeling strong and passing people in those areas so I think those are the types of areas I’ll need to remind myself to keep the pace up a little and not noodle along. (I’m 177# and 315-320 ftp @ sea level on my MTB).

Sugarloaf and the top 3/4 of Powerline were MUCH chunkier and rocky than expected. I think I got a video of the entire Powerline Descent, but have to check the GoPro.

This time, I wasn’t fully recovered from Lutsen, and didn’t have as long to acclimate. When I’m back in August I’ll have 12-13 days at altitude and a full taper. But have to remind myself that I split the course into two days this time. A 4 hour and 5 hour day aren’t the same as a 9 hour day even though I was fatigued going into day 2.

Managed to “tweak” my shin at Lutsen as it flared up Monday. I think the Anterior Tibialis. Didn’t seem to impact me on the bike but am still dealing with swelling so taking some time off and icing the hell out of it
so that’s my only worry right now.

Under 6 weeks!

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In my experience 4 W/kg with decent nutrition and no major altitude issues is 8:45 pace, and you have that 10-15 minute buffer for mistakes. 15 minutes on a 9 hour day is a comparatively razor thin margin though. You can hit some low points but mentally, it is extremely important you refocus and rally or that margin is gone fast.

How far up the goat trail did you make it due the snow? How’d you find your gearing overall?

As I’m sure people are sick of me saying, I cleaned the whole Powerline climb during the race last year and what surprised me the most is that it wasn’t at that high of power. I was just in my 52t in the back and an admittedly glacier cadence to keep power low enough to not cramp. I don’t think riding vs walking there makes a big difference on time so I wouldn’t sweat it at all, but to me that section is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for overall gearing. If you don’t have gearing that would even give you a prayer of riding there that’s a warning sign for me personally. Again, not that riding Powerline matters, but for me it’s a signal that I don’t have a gear that will allow me to keep the legs moving well enough through some of the other climbs if I’m hitting a low point as I inevitably do at some point in the day.

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Columbine: I think we were 1.5-2 mile from the turnaround. So we were through what I’d call the first harder / rocky section before it flattens out and bears left a little, and there’s remains of an old cabin there on the right. I think almost right at the top part of the split? So, probably before the “real” goat trail portions, I think there’s supposed to be two more bad parts?

Powerline for me - My power coming through that switchback right before turning left and getting off was around 320 NP for a minute or so which is right about my sea level FTP. Running a 32T chainring and 10-52 cassette. Maybe I could have made it or it wouldn’t have been as bad as it looked when I turned left after the switchback, but it was sure feeling like it was going to be above threshold for those 5 minutes or so. Or, maybe I really needed to let my cadence get lower than I’m used too…

I didn’t have an issue anywhere else on the course (obviously missing the hard top part of Columbine), it’s just that the section is long enough at that steepness that it was sure looking like it wasn’t going to happen without a real hard 5 minutes.

Good to know. THere’s a good chance I really just don’t know how much I can push myself, because I haven’t made it to the “breaking point” so to speak, and have been finishing all of my recent harder races / rides with some energy left in the tank. I guess I’ll just have to find out!

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I haven’t looked at the files for it, what cadence were you riding through there before hopping off?

With known climbs that challenge max gearing and low cadence I like to train for that for this exact reason because this is where cramps can come in when you put a higher demand on a contraction than you’re used to… so let’s figure out how to make that happen, and we can do some cadence manipulation here in the final weeks that will be really relevant for you I think.

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There’s a little bit less than 2 minutes through what I’m referring to as the “Switchback” right before I hopped off where my NP was 320, Average Cadence was 69, Min Cadence was 49, Max was 95. (Kurt knows this, but my FTP at that elevation is probably 255-260)

Funny though, if the graph I have is right, I think the section I rode was just a hair steeper than the next 5 minutes I walked, so @tgarson may have a point. But still, I lost maybe a minute or two walking and saved myself a pretty hard effort in doing so, and there’s another 30-40 minutes of the powerline climb after getting back on the bike.

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I was able to clean powerline on a pre-ride last year. I just looked at the ride and my power on the steep section was about 235w w/ avg cadence of 55 for ~5 minutes at an avg speed of a blistering 2.8mph. I was ~170lbs and riding a 32-52. It’s hard, but not terrible with fresh legs. It’s not a steady slope, I remember going into the red and then backing way off several times to recover as the grade varies. I was about 1 minute faster on that section riding compared to walking the same stretch on another pre-ride pushing about the same effort. If you are feeling saucy on race day, go for it. For me, that low cadence high effort stuff is the last thing I want to do at the beginning of a steep 40+ minute climb 80 miles into the race (can trigger cramps for me). Pushing the bike up that hill sucks, but at least you are using different muscles vs. pedaling.

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Yeah, might be worth the hike a bike there just to keep from going into the red if it’s not going to cost you much time.

I was thinking if you dropped cadence and that could help keep power down it might be something worth training, but if it’s 50rpm to do 320 at elevation, yeah. Probably hop off.

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I had all of those same thoughts at the camp. I also walked that section of power line; however, I used my heart rate as a guide to make the choice even though I ride with power too.

Threshold heart rate for me is around 165-168. As I rounded that corner my heart rate was at ~164 bpm. I thought “I can do this BUT should I do this?” The question is saving one minute by riding and putting yourself in the red going to come back and bite you on the remainder of power line plus carter plus boulevard.

I don’t no the answer but every choice like that is a calculated risk assessment.

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It’s about 1.2 miles from the cabin to the top of the Goat Trail.

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The very bottom section of Powerline, that @BCM mentions, I believe is the steepest portion. After that it keeps alternating steep, slightly flatter, steep etc. So there are a few spots to “recover”, although briefly. One tricky aspect that riders can run into on race day is some of the people walking (or standing and resting) not getting out of the way.

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Didn’t get a coin at Silver Rush so I’m out for this year. I previously had a very high rate of getting a slot there but it seemed like way more people looking for one and fewer slots available to give out than in the past. My first time in 2017 virtually everyone who stayed to the end got a coin. I am tempted to blame it on the Lifetime membership registration which I still think is complete BS but don’t want to take away enjoyment of the race from any others. Best of luck to everyone in their final month of training!

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Yeah, more qualifiers and I also suspect the lifetime membership thing is a big factor. At Austin Rattler last year, it was only a single coin per age group, even in the huge groups. In years past, it would always at least be the podium for any decent sized group and would often go 5-8 deep in the big groups. It’s their race and right to prioritize their members, but I think they are going to hurt attendance at the qualifiers at some point. Also, they upped the volunteer hours for “preferential lottery treatment” from 10 hours to 15 hours this year, so that is getting to be a higher bar as well. At some point, they aren’t going to have any spots for the “public” if they keep the guarantee in place for their members. If they start losing their volunteers and loose revenue from qualifiers, I think they are going to have to revisit the member policy.

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Do I have it right that provided you join up the LifeTime app (for $15/mth?) for 12mths or more before the lottery(?), you get a spot?

So October/November 2023 you join up, then in Dec 2024 (when you’ve spent nearly $200 on the app), you get a spot for 2025? And you can then cancel the lifetime app?

If I have that right (from listening to the leadville podcast), then that means you can “buy” a spot?

Or you can buy a spot by doing the camp?

Just seems that placing in a qualifying event is impossible for most riders.

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I don’t know if those are the exact numbers, but that sounds right. I have no problem with lifetime giving options to buy in through a charity spot or camp (thousands of $'s), but that online membership is just an invitation for people to game the system. That’s just too cheap of a path, it’s not going to be sustainable and something is going to give. Make me feel like a chump for travelling to leadville early and volunteering for 15 hours. While I do enjoy the volunteer work, it’s a significant investment of time and and cost of travel, etc. For folks who are full lifetime members spending thousands a year in membership fees, I have much less of an issue with those people being guaranteed a spot. Nobody is going to sign up for an expensive membership like that just to get a spot. All that said, I’m a proponent of letting private companies run their events how ever they want. At some point, I’ll stop attending if it’s too costly or I lose interest. Or maybe I’ll just game the system as well and sign up for the online membership. Just seems wrong…

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LIfetime membership allows you to buy a spot. It does not give you a spot.

Camp does not include a spot.

There are a limited number of camp + entry spots (that you pay extra for) that sell out.

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Lifetime membership where I live is in the range of $140/mo and you need to have been a member for 12 months at the point they offer the chance to register for Leadville to members. So buying a membership just to get the opportunity to then pay for the race entry isn’t the easiest/cheapest way to get in. That said, if you want to belong to a nice gym anyway and are a cyclist that is interested in LV or Unbound or whatever, it is a nice perk.