I agree. I can only see it working somewhat if you have features as add-ons. Similar to I have my base youtubetv plan but can add on hbo, showtime, etc.
Or pay 3 years ahead and get 25% discount
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The problem with this model is assuming things wonāt change again in the future. Imagine the uproar if they go back on the grandfathering and then also go back on the ā3 years in advanceā by saying, āweāre introducing XYZ, but it costs moreā. Youāre also assuming TR doesnāt get bought out or whatever. Iād pay for a year in advance, but I donāt see a lot of people trusting enough to pay for 3 yearsā¦especially after the trust had been broken once via the grandfathering.
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Wish I could upvote more than once. Well put.
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Ditto. This is one of the posts that makes the most sense to me as well.
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This is a great point. At the risk of going off topic from legacy pricing, if there was a $5/mo or even free āworkout playerā version that might be a great way to get people into TR. Later they might be interested in upgrading to the Basic/Pro/AT whatever plan. Personally though I might drop my legacy subscription for the āworkout playerā only system as I donāt use the TR plans or AT.
Also, Iām pretty sure the legacy promise was āWeāll never change your pricingā not āWeāll never change your pricing and keep rolling out all kinds of amazing ML based training and analysis tools for you.ā (Though if somebody can prove me wrong Iāll gladly eat crow.) The product theyāve come out with in the last year is worlds beyond what we all bought into when we first signed up. That being said Iād want better support for outside workouts or run/swim/row/hike/whatever included to the legacy when it finally gets fixed, but I think itās more than fair for them to say any future updates to AT and other ML features need to cost more.
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I meanā¦ Sureā¦ all it could happened.
Its a gamble?
just FYIā¦ this term so many posters keep using has a racist past. Guessing thatās why the term ālegacy pricingā is preferred.
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Yup, we have seen it mentioned here and every other pricing thread. I even shared similar info in one of them.
A key issue here, is that Nate also used the bad term directly in his podcast comment, so thereās thatā¦
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Legacy subscriber here. Clearly I prefer paying $99 to $189 but I donāt view it as a one way deal. By definition, the legacy subscribers are the most loyal and that has real value. We may be lower revenue clients but we are almost certainly lower cost clients too. There is no cost to acquire us as a customer, we are also likely lower cost to service and support (as we are already familiar with the product) etc. These things have real, tangible value to TR both in terms of cash flow and valuation of TR as a business. I applaud TR for recognizing this value in their pricing strategy.
In addition, the longer term subscribers have provided the data that makes AT etc. possible, I view my discount as payment for having provided the data that makes all the cool stuff possible.
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This. All of this.
100% what these two users said.
Iāve kept my TR subscription continuously active because I knew Iād stay locked into my rate even though there have been long periods of time where I was far from an active TR user. Otherwise I would have subbed for a few months when I was using it and cancelled when I wasnt like I do with Zwift.
I donāt think anyone WANTS to see their rate rise, but I do think the loyalty pricing idea I quoted above is the best compromise between longtime users being rewarded for being so, and TR not getting to the point where theyāre losing money on all of us āoriginalā users.
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Since you asked for feedback, here it goes:
1) Do not split the TR product into āregularā and āproā versions. Maintaining two different version of the product is likely to generate all kinds of headaches that will not be compensated by whatever higher price you may be able to charge for the āproā version. Much bigger companies have tried this and failed.
A better option might be to open an API and provide basic tools which a limited group of power users could use to access data, which you do not want to make available for users at large / incorporate to the product. You might even be able to sell these tools to the power users for extra fee to cover their development / maintenance costs.
2) Do not remove grandfathering and definitely do not relegate grandfathered users into āsecond class citizensā by not allowing them access to the latest features without forfeiting their veteran status.
Grandfathering is a great way to keep users subscribing through hard times and rewarding loyal customers. The amount of the discount is not that relevant in and by itself (at least for me).
If and when the price difference between grandfathered and new subscriptions grows too large, a better option might be to set a floor for the grandfathered subscription prices based on new subscription prices and keep them in sync going forwards (e.g. set a floor for grandfathered subs at -20 % or whatever compared to new subs and whenever you raise to price for new subs, the floor for grandfathered subs rises also -you can easily adjust this discount later on, if the nominal difference grows too large or you just want the decrease / increase the discount).
As for Nate worrying about going back on his word, things change and sometimes you have to make hard decisions which are going to make some people unhappy. Your obligation is to do what is best for the product and community as a whole, even if this forces you to occasionally admit you made a mistake before and deal with the consequences.
Many thanks for the whole team for your dedication and devotion!
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@Semi_Matias, I moved your post into the dedicated topic that was started yesterday, in response to Nateās comments & request.
Legacy user, started in 2013 but think I was month to month and locked in at 99 in 2014.
That price does keep me paying and paying motivates me to train at times, so that benefits myself and TR.
Iām not sure what my limit is for what Iād pay but I can say that if after nearly a decade I had to pay the same as someone starting tomorrow Iād question whether it was worth bothering with an annual sub.
The main issue with letting someone with legacy pricing just pay 5 bucks extra a month (or whatever was suggested) to unlock new features is that it would put all but the first 2 or 3 locked in prices at the current priceā¦ or more. It would be cheaper for anyone locked in over 129 to just cancel and renew.
The suggestion to give a discount off a new price for legacy users seems to make the most sense, but also someone whoās been here a decade and someone whoās been here 3 years at this point would get the same discount unless there was some sort of tiered discount which might still put a lot of people off. Tiers could be tied to previous price structures. Someone at 89 gets 25% someone at 99 gets 20% etc. Price bumps from 189 to 209 and those who had been locked in at 189 get 5%. If people at 149 were getting 5% before it just shifts all the discounts up slightly. So every time the price goes up so does your discount. None of this has to be visible from the outside, no one knows there are tiers, only the user would see it when renewing like they do now only it would be a discount off current not a fixed old price.
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Technically Iām a legacy subscriber but I started (Oct 2019) when the price was the same as it is now - I pay $20/month but the yearly cost is $189. Previously Iād been on TR back in 2015/2016? when I subscribed for the winter and gave up for the summer months. These last two years Iāve stuck with it through summer because of something C or other, outdoor workouts helped here.
I do the Low Volume plans so thatās three workouts a week, twelve a month so thatās roughly $1.40 a session. Compare that with our local gym - itās not a full World Gym type facility, itās just a weights room in the local leisure centre - which charges Ā£20/month, roughly $28/month. Iād do two sessions a week, eight a month so $3.50 a session.
Not sure what my limit is, maybe somewhere in the 30-50% above what I pay now. I have very few other subscriptions so thereās not much else fighting for my cash. I donāt know what Iād do if I wasnāt on TR - Zwift graphics do my head in - they look like theyāve been done by a teenager with an endless supply of Entonox 
Nate sort of boxed himself in with his promise whichever way you interpret it. Inflation at 2% leads to a 50% increase over 20 years, 3% is 85% in the same time frame. Iām not sure what the āleast worstā option is - possibly keeping the legacy pricing for existing users who were promised it but stopping it for new users. All depends on the numbers on legacy and new subscribers.
If you are going to do that math comparing to a gym membership itās simply not apples to apples - we front the other bulk with a $700-1400 Trainer, thousands on our bikes, the room we exercise in, a computer, wifi, a/c, electric, etc. Itās not the same. This is an app that does great things, but at the end of the day itās an app not a brick-n-mortar gym. TR can also can get the whole world on it, where as gyms have a fire code capacity and realistic geography constraints for a market. These are not at all the same to compare head to head.
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I have been a long-time subscriber and an on/off user. I did this to continue to support the company and itsā development as well as keep my membership cost locked in. This was the āsellā by Trainerroad originally; reward loyalty and earn a client that gives continuous support. If this feature is removed, or I am in some way tiered in product upgrades then I will choose to only pay for the product when I use it and will definitely shop other products. I understand the desire and need for improved profit, it should not be at the cost of loyal users that have stuck by Trainerroad for years.
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This has been rattling around in my brain, and my thoughts are evolving. Some things Iām considering are:
- a price increase is inevitable*. If not 2022, then 2025 or some time when $99 is worth about as much as $50 is today (*yes, unless TR gets lots more subscribers and the legacy people make up such a small percentage of subscribers that it doesnāt matter. To that point, GET ALL YOUR FRIENDS TO JOIN!!)
- one thing I really like about TR, is/was that itās cheap. This isnāt exclusive like Peloton or Soul Cycle etc. When I joined, the $99 was a very low bar to entry. At $199 I think we will see a percentage of Legacy subscribers leave in protest and another percentage leave because they donāt like the cost. I just really liked how we have an active community with weekly updates from the company about training and the product etc. I have no idea whoās behind Rouvy and the other plans, and Eric at Zwift doesnt open up as much as Nate and Chad do.
- Given how the software is so much better than when I joined, I would be okay going to $149 or maybe $199 if itās then my new legacy pricing. Iām not okay losing all recognition of my 3 years of membership and doing $199, then a year later $249 ā¦ pretty soon itād get to the point where itās $399 and worthwhile to me only when really training hard.
- Nate really did paint himself into a corner with the on-air promises. Itās not a contract, but it set an expectation. Now would I rather TR said ālets not develop and keep our costs down so we can survive on all the $99 subscribersā, or the āwe need to increase the cost because weāre making a better productā ā¦ well, I far prefer the later option, even though itās likely going to cost me money.
Ramp test, calendar, adaptive training - those are awesome and beyond what I signed up for. And the next stuff is looking even better. My $99 is a complete bargain!
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I am grandfathered in at 129$. The exchange rate brings that down to 10 Euro per month and thatās about the maximum I would be willing to pay.
To me TrainerRoad simply wouldnāt be worth more. Ultimately, I am using it for the workout player, the library and the calendar. All the rest is nice to have but doesnāt provide much extra value.
Comparing TrainerRoad to Systm makes me wonder whether it actually is even worth the 129 dollars. Mostly because Systm offers so much more than just cycling. Also I doubt their methodology would make me much slower.
Anyhow, I will stay with TrainerRoad as long as my pricing stays where it is. Mostly because of the very likeable team I happily support.
To end this on a constructive note. Perhaps it would be worth considering a tonend down subscription option. Like one without the fancy new stuff like AT, group workouts, FTP prediction and what else is to come. Folks grandfathered in could stay on that option or pay a premium and move to the all-in functionality.
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