This is exactly what was proposed, only those on legacy pricing get to keep AT and group workouts. If you want FTP and anything else new, you pay ~$5 more.
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Apologies but I must have missed it. Where was this proposed?
In the podcast weāre all talking about. See above for the 20 minute section that covers it.
People keep expanding and increasing the additional cost, but all Nate said was $5 more for new stuff post-AT.
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I guess I should have spend more care reading. Havenāt listened to the full conversation yet. Thanks for pointing it out!
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Another legacy user ($99/yr) here. I probably would not renew if I had to pay more. TR doesnāt incorporate multisport workouts, so it is significantly less valuable to me. At $99/yr the bike part is probably worth it. Probably the only thing that would get me to pay more would be fully adaptive triathlon plans
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Iām a relatively new TR user, although I spent some time on a subscription back in 2014/2015. When I was looking for a way to get back into structured training, I tried FulGaz (paid for the full year in advance) and Zwift, but in the end, I just wanted to do the work. TR is not the best fit for plans - I am targeting ultraendurance rides (next up, Sebring 24 on 2/19), and I signed up too close to get a full base/base2/build/specialty. But I like what I see, the calendar, AT (which I was in automatically), and the plans for the future. I like the ethos; I like @Nate_Pearson ās openness and transparency (especially this new Adderall-fueled version); I like the podcast team (@IvyAudrain , @ambermalika , and @chad , as well as whoever the āguestsā are) - it feels like hanging out with a bunch of folks who want to talk about all kinds of cycling things (and NON-CYCLING things, like raising your kids in a way that promotes their own competence instead of fueling their parentsā neediness, and how to work with a therapist).
But, to the point of this whole thread: @Nate_Pearson wants feedback on a non-well-articulated potential change to the pricing system for TR. A couple of thoughts (remember, I signed up for the current price, and consider it very worthwhile):
- User acquisition is expensive. User retention is cheap.
- Once users LEAVE you, they are EVEN HARDER to get back (much higher customer acquisition due to bad feelings)
- The users who are going to feel abused and who leave will talk bad about you - and this will raise your customer acquisition cost.
- The loyal customers who are on a locked price got that price because they took a chance early on - they are just like early investors - they paid when the product was NOT all that it is today,
- The data that is needed for an ML platform to be meaningful is produced by MORE customers, not FEWER customers (consider the discount to be payment for data).
- Multiple product tiers introduces friction in the purchase experience by making the potential customer think about it - make it easy to buy by making it simple.
- Multiple tiers creates customer service nightmares. 'nuff said on that topic.
- How does this discussion make us (and the world) go faster?
Thanks!
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I pay a grandfathered price. If that price changes, Iāll unsubscribe asap. I have stayed with TR in part because even though I barely use the service now I might use it more in the future. Feels like a broken promise which just rankles personally.
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Forgot to mention, I like you too @Jonathan . Congrats on the family and life-changing goals for this year.
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Exactly this. I love TR but itās getting really expensive even at current pricing, if they keep increasing the price I just wouldnāt be able to afford it. Would have to go to a different platform.
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per monthā¦ Which youāve already said so not correcting you just clarifying since your last few posts just mention 5 bucks which could cause confusion.
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Nate just said 5 more a month but wasnāt clear if there was still an annual discount on that or if it would be 5 per month on top of an annual rate. So we need to look at how that might impact what someone is paying.
Since it is easy call the 99 tier 100, the monthly rate at the time was 10 bucks a month or 120 a year. So the annual is about a 16% discount. If we made the 10 buck plan 15 it is now 180 and if we applied a similar annual discount that is 150. That ends up being a 50% increase in price for those users. Someone paying 20 now and going to 25 is only a 25% increase.
On the surface everyone paying the same increase in price for the new fancy features seems fair. But 5 bucks a month being 50% (could be 60% if there is no annual discount) more vs 25% more changes the perceived value to different people.
That was not the deal. I said as long as Iām CEO, I wouldnāt raise your price. I never said youād get everything the company TrainerRoad ever built.
Butā¦I didnāt clearly communicate that you WOULDNāT get everything we ever built. So thatās on me.
This is just a thought experiment and I appreciate everyone discussing this.
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To add another perspective to the discussion. These are the competitors I have tried in the past.
(1) Systm: 129$
(2) Zwift: 180$
(3) TrainerRoad: 189$
(4) Fulgaz: 97$
(5) Xert: 99$
(6) Garmin: 99$
They are all offer training plans and to some extent also intelligent training. Some also offer additional sports, entertainment and free partners.
Looking at the price points it feels like the standard TrainerRoad pricing is off. Hard to see the value proposition there. I mean why is it worth 60 $ more than System for instance sake?
So perhaps Nateās comment āor cheaperā is the way to go? I would assume that a cheaper price would attract more users and subsequently create more revenue.
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Loyalty pricing is a great idea. I concur that tiered pricing would be unfortunate, unless there are two tiers and the lower one is a no-frills basic package for those that just want the player and workout library.
Either way I feel that the grandfathered annual plans are conspicuously good value and I have been wondering for a while now whether I should just reset my subscription at the standard rate in view of the increased functionality year on year. Nate, call me 
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Need to decrease trainer road $10 and increase fullgaz $10 to be accurate
Itās 97.99 and 189 on the homepages.
Edit: Nvm, I think I got your point.
Thatās bogus. It is widely accepted that a benefit of SAAS over one-time purchases is that services will enjoy upgrades over time.
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2013 member as well, I appreciate the gesture from @Nate_Pearson on the grandfathered members. I wonder how many of us are left as a percentage of the overall user base. My subscription is effectively paying for the podcast and dev because I donāt use the platform. Iāve kept my grandfathered subscription going because I appreciate the podcast and the enhancements that have been added (although I donāt use them). Iāve been using an IRL coach for a few years now, but always think about going back to TR.
The one feature enhancement that would probably get me back to TR full time is recognizing outdoor rides in the adaptive training, without that, any adaptations are useless to me.
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Iām a long time $99-er and the value at that price point is beyond what I should be paying. Also, Iāve really been getting into Zwift recently to get away from the Blue Blocks of Death, so Iām kinda at a crossroads with subscriptions. Does TR make me faster? Yup but Iām not a competitive cyclist so do I really care all that much? Not really; I use TR because I like the mission and gang so I stay. That said, if Iām going to pay more for TrainerRoad then in return thereās an expectation of new features that are ready when announced.
Case in point - AT. The product gets rolled out then for months it became a bit of a folly to be honest with āWeāre working on itā. Maybe Iām being too critical but from the outside the execution from launch to a fully working platform was less than stellar. I understand the testing side, bugs, etc. but, for me at least, that should have been done long before the announcement. In fairness, though, that was kind of forced by the YT dude.
To be honest Iād go $10/month more with a 10-20% discount for paid-up-front but more than that Iād have to make a decision about what I really want out of a training platform.
Now about those talked about masters plans for us āoldā guysā¦
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Or manage the cost base or seek funding as competitors are doing. The user doesnāt have to pay.