Are you using any sort of hydrocolloid? If it’s just water and sugar basically, I’d consider it a syrup (of varying viscosity, depending on reduction or amt. of water added originally), vs. an actual gel. I’ll be taking a crack at making a GU clone soon, from their ingredient list it does not seem too complex and it is pretty clear what function each ingredient they include serves. Gellan is what they are using to make it a gel.
Using this as an example, in my non-professional, but enthusiast cook view -
Maltodextrin - Carb source and adds body
Water - Solvent and carrier
Fructose - Carb source and adds body
L-Leucine - BCAA additive for nutrition reasons
Natural Flavor - Makes it taste like crappy artificial berry whatever
Citric Acid - Flavor and preservative, synergistic with other preservatives
Sodium Citrate - Salt/Electrolyte
Potassium Citrate - Salt/Electrolyte
Calcium Carbonate - Not sure if this is for nutritional reasons or as some sort of buffer?
L-Valine - BCAA additive for nutrition reasons
Sea Salt - Flavor and preservative
Green Tea Leaf Extract - Label declaration friendly way to use processed ingredient for caffeine addition
Malic Acid - Flavor and preservative
Gellan Gum - Hydrocolloid to make the liquid into a gel
L-Isoleucine - BCAA additive for nutrition reasons
Sunflower oil - Not sure but probably for texture/squeezability?
Sodium Benzoate - Standard preservative for shelf stable things to prevent mold/yeast etc
Potassium Sorbate - Standard preservative for shelf stable things to prevent mold/yeast etc
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No, I haven’t used a thickening agent. I don’t have a good understanding of amounts to use to know where to start. Anyone have a recipe to make a gel or gu?
Found this a while back:
½ Cup plus 1 Tablespoon Maltodextrin
2 Tablespoons Fructose
¼ teaspoon Salt
½ teaspoon Pectin
¼ Cup Water
or
- 1/2 cup of maltodextrin
- 1/4 cup of water
- 1 teaspoon Certo liquid pectin
- 1/8 teaspoon citric acid
or
he ingredients
-
1 cup of maltodextrin
-
1 cup of mixed frozen berries.
-
water to make up the volume.
-
4 teaspoon Certo liquid pectin
-
1/2 teaspoon citric acid
The method
In a small non-stick frying pan or milk pan heat the mixed berries so they thaw and start to soften, mush them up whilst still heating and add a little water. Once thoroughly mushed sieve the resulting gloop so you seperate out the berry juice from the solid material. Make this juice up to 1/2 a cup of fluid and then thoroughly dissolve in the maltodextrin. Whilst still warm add in the citric acid and pectin. Leave to cool in a fridge.
I am coming from the cooking side of things more than the sports nutrition side of things… I really don’t put much stock into recipes like those that use volume measurements vs. weight, especially ones like “1/2 cup + 1 tablespoon”. Seems odd to specify the added tablespoon when a volumetric cup of a powder can be pretty significantly variable. Pectin is often thought of as a more natural hydrocolloid but would not be my first choice for gels used like this.
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Just saw the edit, the last bit with the berries is basically a recipe for berry jelly* (like one would put on toast), but with maltodextrin instead of granulated sugar.
edit - jelly, not jam.
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Makes sense. If you have some recipes in Grams/weights, I am happy to guinea pig them as well. I need to get a thickening agent.
I’ll ask a friend more knowledgable about technical ingredients than I about the specific Gellan variety to use, and will post here again once I have a recipe I’ve made and works.
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I can also do a Maurten gel clone too, if you prefer that texture.
SIS uses Gellan to thicken like Gu does.
Maurten uses Sodium Alginate to form their BIOPOLYMER MATRIX (strawberry jello is also a “biopolymer matrix” 
).
This would be stupid simple to make, with Sodium Alginate being familiar to those who know the “Spherification” trend in cooking/dining years ago.
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Based on what I found online, I don’t think so…
"### View Ingredients and Allergens
Vanilla Ice Milk
Milk ingredients, sugar, modified milk ingredients, glucose, mono and diglycerides, guar gum, dextrose, carrageenan, cellulose gum, natural flavour, sodium hydroxide, sodium carbonate."
They are using a good combo of guar/carrageenan/cellulose gum. Makes sense since some of these have synergistic properties with dairy.
I’ve never made an alginate thickened milkshake, but I think it would be snotty/phlegm-y in texture, much like the Maurten gels.
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Had a thought…
Let’s say I was going to shoot for 90g/hr but plan to use a lighter drink mix, let’s say 68g per 1000ml, of Gatorade and regular sugar and plan to make up the difference with an SiS gel which is 22g maltodextrin. Should I alter what I use in the drink mix to get a “happy” 1:1 or 2:1 ratio and if so, how?
Also @Dr_Alex_Harrison I used your recommendation for caffeine in a mtb race race this weekend and had a breakthrough performance. Not sure it was 100% what did it as I made a couple other small tweaks but I’m sure it was a major factor. So thanks for that!
Just simple math problem to solve for;
if you were going to do you 90g utilizing a 2:1 mix, then that has you doing a 60g/30g of malto/fructose.
You know that the gel is 22g of pure malto so all you need to be doing is a 38g/30g mix in your bottle to keep the ratio whole over the hour.
make sense?
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Nah, close enough is fine, especially if you’re not pushing the upper limits of gut tolerance. The Gatorade + Sugar mix is prob high enough in fructose you’re good to go.
Caffeine is very mildly physiologically performance-enhancing (via fat ox), but in my experience is STRONGLY psychologically performance enhancing. I decide to push harder, and more consistently suffer with high caffeine intake as compared to without any. My wife experiences the same.
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Hi @Dr_Alex_Harrison our Gatorade in Australia is a 3:1 sucrose: glucose ratio.
https://gatorade.com.au/product-range/electrolyte-powder-sports-drink
Do I still just add sugar to it and if so how much per serve.
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I was using Bulk Powders Complete Protein in Choc flavour and it was acceptable. I tried their vanilla flavour and its spot on. Very much like Vanilla ice cream 
Hey, @redlude97, you may be right, assuming Gatorade in USA is the same as AUS, it’s mostly sucrose. Certainly makes financial sense. Unbeknownst to Gatorade’s marketing department, it also makes sense for performance.
If true in USA, further evidences that very high rates of fructose intake are feasible during long training sessions, when paired with glucose and some sodium.
@onesully, I’d bet you can do exactly as I have laid out here Saving Money as an Endurance Athlete and be just fine.
Or as laid out here:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/At-Home_Hydration/Nutrition_for_an_idiot_P7452851/#p7452851
Basically: Gatorade for flavor. Sugar to meet hourly carb goal. Don’t forget sodium.
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Interesting.
100%.
I’m curious as to his rationale here. Added to my media to-do list.
I should add that in my experience in elite sport (both as a coach and athlete at US Olympic Training Centers) the lack of nutritional understanding by the best coaches, athletes, and even the sport dietitians on staff at the OTC’s and with pro teams, is nothing short of alarming.
I suspect that the reason they’re not tracking it in the pro peloton or elsewhere in elite sport is at least 50% driven by lack of knowledge of the folks calling the shots.
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I’d bet money this is driven by old-school “solid food is better/essential” type thinking.
But cool that they’re routinely doing >100g/hr with less than perfect fuel sources for intake maximization.
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Dr. In your energy/nutrition drink that you have listed with Gatorade, sugar, sodium citrate, and table salt could I use tailwind instead of the Gatorade? I have a couple bags left before I am out. Probably a dumb question as I do not totally understand all the nutritional information you have been throwing out there. Thanks
If you are very strict about hitting a 2:1 glucose/fructose ratio, for every 8 parts of gatorade powder, add 1 part pure glucose to total your desired #.
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