Should work fine. Be careful to keep sweetness and flavor intensity mild when using artificially sweetened mixes.
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Given that many gels have something like 25mg or 40mg caffeine, I can see how 200mg caffeine might be alarming. If anything, though, the gel industry is under-dosing their caffeine amounts per gel, on average, just to meet market desires.
200mg caffeine is below the recommended dose per literature standards for probably >50% of forum users. 3-6mg/kg is recommended for events under 6 hours. Probably more necessary for very long events as the physiological half-life of caffeine is very roughly ~6 hrs.
200mg is certainly not in the realm of dangerous, or even close to it.
Taurine is not a stimulant.
Theanine is not a stimulant.
For context: My wife took 1600mg caffeine over a 24-hr ride. She’s 63kg. I’m 94kg and have taken 2000mg in a shorter duration than that.
Even if 3+ of those 200mg caffeine gels were taken together, 99.9% of folks would have nothing but a great day on the bike.
Disclaimer: this is not an endorsement to increase anyone’s caffeine dose. Talk to your medical doctor. Don’t do it if you have high blood pressure. blah blah blah. 
PS. That SIS product marketing is top notch. How to get people to increase their caffeine intake to actually-performance-enhancing amounts: label it nootropics.
How do you sleep after this?
My habitual intake of caffeine is ~100 - 200mg a day. If I double that, I struggle with sleep. I can’t imagine going x10. That’s probably my issue with the science saying how much we can handle for performance. If you can’t sleep afterwards.
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I did some calculations and the cheapest “beta fuel substitute” I can make where I live is:
60 grams table sugar
30 grams maltodextrin
An electrolyte tablet I got in bulk
Total cost is something like … 60 cents
I like to mix this with a blender, the maltodextrin is a little slower to mix with cold water
Totally agree. 3-6mg/kg is great for performance. Maybe not so great if taken after noon, if sleep is important to you that very next night.
For refrerence, here’s the blurb I send to clients about caffeine.
Caffeine has the following beneficial qualities, with very limited side-effects, assuming it doesn’t reduce your sleep quantity or quality:
- Mood enhancer
- Appetite suppressant
- Alertness aid / Energy booster
- Mild performance enhancer for strength. Primarily through central nervous system
- Moderate performance enhancer for endurance. Partially via more fat oxidation. Probably primarily through psychology and willingness/eagerness to endure suffering, at least in weak-minded mortals like me.
I think most scientists and practitioners worth their weight in salt would always weigh the tradeoffs of sleep loss when making daily caffeine dose recommendations.
It was a one-time thing, including overnight riding on Mt. Lemmon. She rode from 10am to 10am, and I rode roughly from 8pm to 10am, (so basically just the night riding portion).
The doses of caffeine we took gave us just enough energy to take a perfectly normal picture with normal-ish smiles, put our bikes away, and then head straight to bed and sleep for 6+ hrs in the middle of the day. Slept hard. haha
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I think you can go cheaper if you just use salt.
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Well, one thing for the hydration tablets is that they’ve got some flavoring, that’s something I want to keep… Maybe I could try the mix without flavor
Good point. I don’t like unflavored sucrose + malto + salt that much. Each of those has their own flavor and I’m not a fan.
I use a small amount of Gatorade or any other pre-flavored beverage mix for flavoring. I’ve seen other folks mention lemon juice or other fruit flavors.
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Hey everyone!
This thread has been amazing information from me and I have been making my own drinks for over a year now with great success. I was always having GI issues and bonking, this has pretty much alleviated those problems!
I have been using the 2:1 ratio Gatorade and Carbo Gain as shown in the beginning of this thread. I am in need to order more Carbo Gain but it looks like there is a shortage on it.
Does anyone recommend anything else? I dont mind something better etc but im trying to stick with Amazon for simplicity.
I am in the US also, I notice this on amazon and not sure if its as good etc.
Thanks everyone!
I have used this in the past……used to be a lot cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/Sports-Nutrition-Dextrose-Monosaccharide-10-Pound/dp/B002JNM8YM/ref=psdc_6973677011_t3_B079V7GL7F
But still appears to be cheaper than the one above.
I’m no lover of sweet tasting foods and drinks but I can stomach 80-90g of my own 2:1 malto-fructo mix per hour no problem. I always add a few drops of Bulk Powders’ flavour drops and usually (though not always) add some of their electrolyte mix, both of which make a noticeable difference to the taste.
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I dont mind sweet but this was sickly! I’ve found a pinch of Citric Acid in each bottle really takes the edge off that sickliness. I can enjoy 1:0.8 malt/fruc now with Citric Acid+Sodium Citrate.
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New BF uses a 1:0.8 ratio as opposed to 2:1, citing improvement in GI tolerance. Is there anything to back this up? Is 2:1 still best? @Dr_Alex_Harrison
Shared this before, but sharing again in answer to your question. It’s actually the main reason I got on this forum because I was fuming with keyboard warrior level sport scientist rage about all the promotion of 2:1 all over the internet. LOL
1:1 Glucose:Fructose Ratio Works better than 2:1.
2:1 was never best. The whole world just thought so. The ratio was created by a couple prominent studies that became dogmatic. “Best” is variable, and probably lies in most cases between 2.0:1.0 and 0.9:1.0.
1:0.8 is great.
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Dr_Alex_Harrison,
So in simple terms your saying something like 50grams of the Gatorade mix and 40 grams of maltodextrin is a better ratio to use?
I know this might seem like a dumb question but making sure I’m following you is all
Thank you!
I ended up ordering a 12lb bag of the carbo gain
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If Gatorade is 2:1 glucose:fructose, then adding maltodextrin to it is a bad idea.
If Gatorade is 1:1 glucose:fructose, then adding maltodextrin to it up to a 1:1 ratio of maltodextrin:Gatorade is as high as you should consider going for maltodextrin addition.
We have no way of knowing for sure the sugar composition of Gatorade. I suspect it’s closer to 1:1 based on some info out of Australia, but it’s pretty unreliable info by any standards (possible typos in the screenshot).
If you’re adding anything to Gatorade, it should probably be sugar rather than maltodextrin. Or a bit of both.
The goal shouldn’t be to move towards more glucose, but probably more towards a 1:1 ratio of glucose:fructose.
Matt Hanson told me he doesn’t use fructose until the run so it’s straight malto 500cal/hr on the bike.
Kinda blew my mind
Add that to the list of strong evidence that the ceiling for carb ingestion rates during submax exercise might be way higher than oft reported.
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Ok…. I’m already doing the gator aid thing. I like the taste and it’s reasonably cheap. But have also done custom malt:fruc with a Nuun tablet.
For cheapness, and fun, and because everyone wants to be part of the drink thread… going all in.
I get the sugar part by weight per unit volume.
What is the g/ml for sodium citrate? Or other measure such as teaspoon and I’ll just weigh it out on my scale.
Am not pushing max carbs per bottle, but like being able to vary the mix depending on the ride. Most of my rides are 1-3 hours and using Alex’s table works well.
1 level Teaspoon of Anthony’s Premium Sodium Citrate is 5.5 grams on my cheap kitchen scale. That’s close to what the bag says a teaspoon should yield (5 grams).
