I’m not (a brick) - there are some very good VTTA athletes in the UK these days and I’m not even best in my club. Best I managed I think was 4th in the 50 mile champs a few years back, although I generally do well in my local area champs
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Yes that was why I posted this. I changed plans because I thought it might help me longer term (as I’ve added in more gym work as I get older). I’m having a bit of a wobble about my decision…
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I’d be inclined to adopt the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ mantra. If what you were doing was working, and wasn’t leaving you feeling battered, then personally I’d revert to that. At well north of 4.5w/kg at north of 50, it was clearly pretty effective.
I suppose the counter-argument would be to stay with what you’re currently doing, if you want to create more space in the week for other stuff. I think there’s a lot of sense to the idea that all of us over 40 should be doing some resistance work, and if that means you need/have less time on the bike, then that’s a conscious decision. At some point, many of us will make the transition from absolute cycling performance being the no.1 priority to a slightly greater focus on health/longevity, then some decline in the numbers is inevitable.
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It was asking for more volume, with less intensity, not less TSS.
Not sure it was that clear cut or explicit. Complaints about too many intensity days were ubiquitous. Swapping out one for and easy day was commonly stated as a request & personal mod by many. That would be a TSS drop in most cases unless the “easy” swap was rather long.
Regardless, people can use Masters plans and either:
- kick up their time availability on one or more days of thr same volume or
- pick the next higher volume of a plan to get that TSS.
Either is pretty much what you describe without much effort.
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I’ll agree to disagree. What I saw was two part:
- Too many intensity days
- Replace the weekend intensity with a long Z2
To me, that clearly means too much intensity, not too much TSS. But again, I can see where others might read those differently.
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Yep, this is the way. You can’t just remove 1 hour of intensity and replace it with an hour of less intense work and expect to see a performance increase.
Not wanting to turn this into another thread on polarized training or loading up on Z2, but the reason for reducing intensity is generally not to reduce stress. It’s to increase overall training stimulus in a way that can be absorbed and doesn’t produce too much fatigue. I can knock out blocks of 700+ TSS weeks and feel pretty good if the intensity is limited, but a couple 500 TSS weeks with a bunch of v02max or higher would bury me.
It’s a tough thing for TR to balance. Their primary target market seems to be folks with minimal hours to train, so a bias toward high intensity makes sense to optimized performance for those people. But then people say there is too much intensity and they are getting burned out or too fatigued to complete the workouts. Reduction in intensity seems like a way out, but potentially at the cost of performance unless volume is significantly increased (which many don’t have the time or desire to do). It’s a bit of a catch 22 and their are no magic bullets here. If you want to increase your performance, you have to increase the training stress and intensity can only take you so far. Volume is the simple solution, but just isn’t realistic or desirable for many.
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Glad to hear you’ve been finding success using TR!
While the Masters Plans are generally geared towards older riders who might not have as much time or ability to recover ideally between hard sessions, that label doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right plan for you just because of your age.
If you were on a non-masters plan before and you were recovering well and seeing gains in your training, it could be wise to stick with the mantra of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” that other athletes have posted here already.
If you were, however, having trouble feeling fully recovered before you hit your higher intensity days, it could be worth sticking with the masters version of your current plan to see how you feel over a few blocks of training.
It can also be tough both mentally and physically to be going full-gas in races year-round – be it on Zwift or in real life. If you haven’t taken an end-of-season break yet this year, that might be worth considering as well so you can fully rest up before getting deep into your next cycle of training. It could also be a good idea to take some time off from the Zwift races as well – or at least do them with less frequency, especially during the base training season.
Ultimately, it’ll boil down to how you’re feeling – consider whether or not the volume and training stress of your previous plan feels like something you can continue to sustain, and weigh that against how you’ve been finding the masters version of your plan so far.
Feel free to let us know if you have any additional questions!
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I’m 49 and do not have a history of structured endurance training, unless you count High School cross-country running. I’ve been doing a Fondo training plan, medium volume. I haven’t felt overtrained, over-taxed or unable to recover, so I saw no reason to switch to a Masters plan. From reading the description and reviewing the plan, it seemed clear my overall weekly TSS would decrease, and inhibit overall power gains. That didn’t seem a worthwhile trade-off if I wasn’t feeling over-trained.
I’m actually surprised you made the switch. Judging from your post, you felt just fine on your previous training plan, and that should be the ultimate metric — how you feel. You clearly have a long history of training and your body is well accustomed to the training stress and recovers just fine — so why change? And if you’re feeling WORSE after the change, then that says about all you need to know. Do what works for you and has worked for years — right up until it doesn’t. THEN make a change.
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You are of course correct. The only thing that prompted me really to make the change was the fact that I’ve added strength sessions in which I never had before and so I had no real insight into how that would impact me.
Is there a way I can switch off the masters toggle in my plan without it causing problems? Thanks
A delayed tangent about the title “doctor.”
Both of my parents have PhDs and dad, being older got his first, got a job, got married and then mom started having kids. Mom took a few more years to finish her dissertation and defend hers, you know, 'cause a move across the country and 'cause kids… but shortly after she got hers, we (me age 5?-6-7?) got a call at the house from one of dad’s undergrads asking for “Doctor Hawkhill.” I asked, very specifically, “Which one?” and mom overheard…
It wasn’t until my spouse and I gave her her first granddaughter that I came close to matching her happiness of that day… But my wife did most of the work there, so I think I peaked in mom’s eyes on that specific day.
Ivory tower norms are something I became as familiar with as anyone could, without actually going attempting to get a PhD.
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Hey @adehughes 
Yes! You can switch each phase individually:
Go to you Calendar>>Your current Phase Annotation>>Choose from Drop-Down menu.
Or delete your current plan and rebuild it by backdating it to the original Start Date (E.g., Nov 13, 2023):
Go to Career>>Click on Ellipsis>>Delete Plan
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Though I’m not well-versed in physiology, I applaud your conscious changes regardless of your chosen plan. I personally found upping my weight-based gym work from my mid-fifties to be transformative. Now moving towards my mid-sixties, off-bike I have to make significantly fewer age-based compromises that than the vast majority of my peers.
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Agree… For me at 50 years old… it wasn’t the Training … it was outside stressors and we are all have different jobs. I am crippled after work, dizzy and have trouble walking… my job basically destroys me mentally and physically. Knowing this, I need to do my workouts at 4am before work. The Masters Plan (especially during the week) is going amazing for me, and excited to train, as I look ahead, knowing for the most of my work week… its to flush out the legs.
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I’m on the fence right now. I have been doing a medium volume plan using the master selection. I had to switch times around so my three workouts during the week are 45 minutes and then Saturday and Sunday are Both two hour workouts. The Tuesday workout is always a challenge and Wednesday is easy and Thursday is easy. Saturday is a hard day and then Sunday is a relatively easy day. I feel it’s a bit easier right now but again I’m only three weeks in. Considering I am training for event way out in May. I feel that in time the load is going to grow on me and get me to where I need to be but again I won’t know until I give it a chance at the time I do feel it’s a bit easy.
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I’d like to know why all “Masters” grouping end at 50 or 60 with no consideration to those athletes older than 65 or even 70 or 75. Why not keep extending the age groupings?
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Well in the UK, Masters isn’t really a thing in time trials. There are Seniors (below 40) and Veterans (40 and above) and the VTTA have handicap tables for every single age above 40 which results in age adjusted times. There are regularly riders in their 70s and there is a well known rider from Sheffield who I think did a 35 minute 10 this year and I think he might be 93!
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OK. I understand that, tho… I don’t necessarily agree with it. Why should my results at 65 be compared against a 45 year old. It is a big step. I selfishly believe this ‘top end’ will disappear as those writing software also age. LOL
Part of my thinking was listening and watching Nates announcement of the Master’s Plan. His example of comparing age one’s watts per kilogram to others in specific age group ended at 60. I’d just like to see these categories extend beyond 40 and into the 70s. In the El Tour de Tucson, we had riders in their early 70’s completing the 102 miles in under 4 hours. So there are athletes out there in the upper age limits.
Let’s recognize it!
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I marshalled Pre Covid on the E2/10 (Did the sign on). A rider signing back in was all excited about his time which was good but not exceptional I thought for a 70 year old (my mate in his mid 70s has done the course a wee bit faster. I looked him up anyway, he was the 90 year old Peter Horsnell. I think Peter retired from TT’s last year.
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