New features in TR

[cagiva_wmx125]

hi folks. Nate recently talked of new features coming, perhaps late in 2022. was one of those features being to use non TR outdoor rides to influence PL levels? this last year i’ve been training outdoors mostly and then associating them with TR workouts to get my PL levels. i’ve done some outdoor workouts with the greater structure from my wahoo, but ive preferred the looser version of associating workouts. it would be nice for TR to do the PL levels automatically.
also is the plan to have workouts cover a few PLs? it seems false to see (after 2 weeks) endurance levels drop off if you’ve done a block of racing or threshold workouts.

[firemunki]

Levels v2 is coming, but AFAIK there’s no date yet (might have been in a podcast but WFH means no commute so I’m behind on them).

[WombleHunter]

Yeah, but don’t hold your breath, post from 10 months ago (thank god it wasn’t low priority) I’ve given up on AT and PL as it doesn’t suit my requirements, and external workouts get stupid PL’s

Adaptive Training Live Q&A

Its still the highest priority for the development team to consider all and any unstructured rides and workouts within AT. As Nate mentioned on the podcast, its in an ‘Alpha’ testing phase, so as you can imagine, not promising a timeline is something we’ll uphold as with other features and releases to do right by our athletes.

[WombleHunter]

[mcneese.chad]

Here is what i think is the most recent info on Workout Levels Version 2.

AACC Episode 380 released, but forum topic MIA?

Posting in a separate topic that can be merged when TR makes the official topic, but until then: I just got a bit into AACC Episode 380 and at 13 mins in… Nate touches on “Workout Levels Version 2”. It sounds very close with a planned release to a small group for additional use/testing (about 16:25). Then they will move to “Early Access” after that, which is a wide release via user selection in the TR account settings. Getting closer and closer… Pro Racing Data, Time-Crunc…

[enki42]

I get this feeling trying to model an outdoor activity isn’t so easy with lots of edge cases throwing off the predictions.

Also why I wished they looked at more than just activity/workout data as this doesn’t really look at the body’s direct response to the activity, only indirect (what type of work you can do in the future) Hence the other thread I created where I think they should import data like garmin health API which give some metrics that correlate with how much strain the body was under: (but feel like I’m the only one asking for it)

Using HRV to increase and decrease intensity/load

Anyone see this? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362719958_Individualized_Endurance_Training_Based_on_Recovery_and_Training_Status_in_Recreational_Runners They varied the workouts based on nocturnal heart rate variability, perceived recovery, and heart rate-running speed index to get a better response to training. This made it easier or harder based on how the body was responding to training. (The change in the 10 km time was greater in IND (individualized so changed based on HRV) c…

[IvyAudrain]

@cagiva_wmx125

also is the plan to have workouts cover a few PLs? it seems false to see (after 2 weeks) endurance levels drop off if you’ve done a block of racing or threshold workouts.

This functionality is already in place within Adaptive Training! The severity of the ‘trickle down’ from workouts impacting multiple zones varies depending upon the work you’re doing, but it is normal to see a slight drop in endurance if you neglect specific work in that system for a period of time.

We’re making solid progress on Workout Levels V2 that will assign appropriate Progression Levels to your unstructured outside rides, so you won’t have to hunt for similar-looking TR workouts for too much longer!

@WombleHunter

I’ve given up on AT and PL as it doesn’t suit my requirements, and external workouts get stupid PL’s

I’m happy to report that we’re making really good headway on WLV2, but in the meantime, is there anything I can help you with regarding outside structured workouts within AT?

[patricksudol]

@IvyAudrain

We’re making solid progress on Workout Levels V2 that will assign appropriate Progression Levels to your unstructured outside rides, so you won’t have to hunt for similar-looking TR workouts for too much longer!

This is exciting, I can’t wait! I assume this will be released as a beta first?

[IvyAudrain]

Yes, it will be released in closed beta first to iron out any major wrinkles, then we’ll move to beta.
Exiting stuff for sure!

[pkwell]

@Nate_Pearson also uttered “red light / green light” the last two episodes. Not sure what that’s about.

[asteryx]

Regardless of when Workout Levels V2 come out,
how many weeks back will it look at my unstructured rides ?

[enki42]

He’s talked about red/green lots of times in the past. Nothing really new mentioned and seems to only factor in workout TR knows about (cycling and runs) so do a long hike both days on a weekend while you may be worn out TR might think you’re fresh.

[IvyAudrain]

@asteryx

Regardless of when Workout Levels V2 come out,
how many weeks back will it look at my unstructured rides ?

Upon enabling WLV2, Progression Levels and history will be backfilled as if you’ve been using it all along!

[hpbieker]

I think the question was not how much data you will backfill, but how much data you will use to estimate the progression level. E.g. in AI FTP detection you only use the data for the last few weeks to estimate the FTP, and not what you did say one year ago. Even if you use the full history I assume you will put less weight on older data points.

[hpbieker]

Currently, most of your progression levels will decay to 1 if you focus on other workouts for some time. This happened to me now, where I had to start at level 1 for Threshold and VO2Max after the summer where most rides were “unstructured” (but did e.g. some above FTP 15-20 min climbs). This seemed a bit low, so I took a few shorter (30-45 min) stretch workouts The same night to dial in the levels.

Even if proper levels might be hard to find, at least some higher but valid levels should be possible to detect. E.g.:

• If you have completed a ramp test for your current FTP - is it then fair to assume that your Threshold or VO2Max is 1? E.g. If you are able to do 2 x 10 min @ 100% you are at 2.7 (Darwin -5).
• If you have completed a 20-min FTP test or even averaged above your FTP for 20 min on a recent ride, is it then fair to assume that your Threshold is 1?

Also - maybe a training phase (e.g. build phase 1) should start with multiple shorter benchmarking workouts on the same day to facilitate rapid progression instead of having a 2-hour workout at progression level 1?