The other approach is to do workouts that fit the interval structure you’re after (40/20s, 30/15s, etc) - but do them in manual mode so that you ignore whatever intensity target you’re given, and just pace them yourself. 9/10 for the first few intervals and then pretty much full gas for the rest should do it.
Or even do them outside. I’ve had pretty good luck doing Rattlesnake (30/15s with hard start) on a quiet hill with a decent length and a low enough gradient to spin easy on for the rest intervals.
This. I do 2 hard w/o a week. 1 is a standard long steady state VO2 session, the other is a short/short, like Taylor. I do the entire block of on/off like Rattlesnake — first few intervals are hard starts, like 150+% instead of 120%. Takes a few to get the HR up to the appropriate level, then I can back off the power a bit. By the last set you might even find you can do less than 120% power and still get the HR up to Seiler prescribed 90-92%.
Not to open up a can, but I just listened to the FastLabs (formerly Fast Talk) episode with INSCYDs Sebastian Webber and they briefly touched on not doing intervals so hard that you’re unable to hold the prescribed power on the last interval. It seems like a slow degrade in power isn’t good, even if your HR is hitting 90-92% of max. Isn’t a well executed vO2 max workout one in which the input (power) is consistent across every interval?
Once again, VO2max is NOT a power target, it is a physiological process. You can generate VO2 adaptations if you do enough Z2 work (POL Z1). You don’t have to hold 120%, only enough power to elicit those responses. Seiler says to do 108% intervals, after all.
Power at VO2max is a bit useless in the real world. It’s kind of the Tempo of upper zones.
With hard start intervals you can elicit VO2 max even with holding power near to FTP. As @Captain_Doughnutman said many times, vo2 max is not power zone but the state.
VO2max is about training your body to use more oxygen; it’s not about training power, so it doesn’t really matter super duper if your power jumps around.
Threshold training is all about training your body to produce greater amounts of power, so yeah, hitting the power marks are a necessity.
you know it really depends on a lot of things. Just a few things to consider and think about…
VO2max is putting yourself in a situation where you’ve reached max oxygen uptake. Pay attention to breathing and perceived exertion and its hard to miss. VO2max isn’t measured by either HR or power. But both can be used as guidelines. And if the intervals are short, quite often HR has enough lag as to be not so useful as a guideline.
When a coach prescribes vo2max workouts, they often have several goals. Its not just about improving max oxygen uptake, which is often seen to quickly top out. There are often secondary goals that may become primary depending on your current fitness level, how you respond to certain types of training, and how you are currently responding.
For example read this:
or this:
for some well informed points of view.
I’m with you on the effectiveness of doing max efforts, with declining power, but there also may be advantages/gains to looking at your Power Duration Curve and targeting say 90-95% of 3-min and holding power on steady-state 3-min vo2max intervals.
Yeah this. You’re not going to know if you’ve entered into VO2max zone unless you’re hooked up to a lab machine. Power will give you some generalized info, HR will give you some generalized info…make the most of both of them to do a generally good workout.
I stand by this statement, and to be honest when I’m outside the last thing I can do in the middle to end of an interval is pay attention to my bike computer for guidance. However looking at power at beginning of intervals is helpful.
Currently into my well needed rest week after 3 weeks of polarized training. I’ve built TSS up from around 500 upto 550 by end of week3 and for weeks 5-7 im upping it again towards 620. Still trying to pin down my VO2 limit, often been too easy or too hard but some good advice to follow on this thread. This is how my plans look for weeks 5-7:
Week 5
I do them at an effort which can be sustained across all intervals, which involved trial and error.
First time I ever did 30/15s, I followed the prescribed intensity (120% FTP). Second time I adjusted up according to RPE (and on performance during first time) and I’ve settled on about 140-150% FTP.
My 30/xx protocol now is to treat the entire interval block w/ hard starts and declining power. Basically turning every short/short workout into Rattlesnake. Alternatively, you can hard start every rep through the entire block, e.g. 150% for 10s declining down to 120% or even less.
Only issue I found with this is that it’s easy to overdo the first set and find diminishing returns (not just in power, but ability to get to HR targets) in sets 2 and 3.
A teensy little bit of restraint on the first 3 reps may reward you later on.
I read (somewhere) that Brasted might be a good place to start for a Polarized plan. Can any one chime in on this? I’m familiar enough with what VO2 Max workouts feel like. This was OK but I fried myself on that last interval, actually had a moment of concern where it took longer than I’m used to to catch my breath, borderline panic attack, subsided quickly but still… I feel tired but good now (3 hours later).
