Rest Days or Z2 Forever?

Training
1

Question for the group. Do you actually need rest days? And by rest days, I mean completely off the bike. No runs. No rides. No gym.

Now obviously I know you do. But when do you take them?

I’ve been using Join but mainly just doing Z2 right now because I don’t have the motivation for structured intervals. I’ve done 9 days straight Z2, around 2-2:30 hours per day. Join keeps trying to give me a rest day and won’t schedule any workouts. So it got me thinking. If you’re doing just Z2, don’t really need a rest day? I still feel good and did 2:30 today at 65-70%. This is more of a thought experiment. Do you ever need rest days if you’re doing Z2? What about recovery weeks? I don’t plan on going forever, my work always forces a rest day eventually just curious.

1 Like
2

They did a podcast just for you - Ten Minute Tips #31: How To Take A Rest Day (And How To Avoid Screwing It Up) by Empirical Cycling Podcast (soundcloud.com)
But really, some good advice contained within. Answer to your question is: it depends, btw. As for your example - if you look at your bike and say to yourself, “I don’t feel like riding” then you should probably take a rest day. I find that my motivation to ride easy, hard or not at all is a good indicator if I need a rest, and it can be for any reason, not just if my body is tired.

6 Likes
3

I have them pretty religiously for a mental break if anything. Mondays and fridays (sometimes ill do an easy friday ride for coffee). I would do 2 hard sessions a week and 10-12 hours overall.

9 days of solid z2 is my idea of hell but i commend you for it.

7 Likes
4

Yes, rest days are needed.

3 Likes
5

I did this one winter and eventually would get tired and would need rest.

6

I think it largely depends on which muscle groups you work. There’s different ‘‘dimensions’’ of training, some don’t need rest days. Complete rest or very moderate training? depends a lot on the attitude/way you do it, they are vague terms.

I could be just using my bicycle for everyday chores, and totaling maybe an hour of very light cycling, that I don’t even count into my ‘‘training’’ routine, or you may be resting on the couch not moving. Or maybe you’re lifting objects and not standing still for several hours cleaning up, working a physical job, etc.

From my personal experience, on myself, I feel a little bit of working around the sore muscles always gives me better results, and makes the soreness disappear faster. Largely also depends on how I am eating and absorbing food, and so many other factors… but allowing some circulation to occur, rather than complete rest, seems to work better for me. For pure max strain 1-rep strength (which i actually almost never do anymore, maybe more a 2 rep max at most), I’d certainly wait a couple of weeks. But that just means rest from that type of strain, not from completely not using that muscle group at all.

Similarly, I’ve found that when I get an injury, if I just rest and wait… it takes months (for example lower back injury during squats). The last time, which was probably the 4th/5th time I got this type of injury (lower disc moves, can’t even stand… had to walk up stairs on 4 legs), I immediately stretched it (in a specific way) the moment I got the injury. Allowed for slight movement and circulation around that area, never really ‘‘rested’’. After a few days I was already walking. The times before, the same exact injury, I would be stuck for months. This is not just me, also most other medical practices have shied away from suggesting complete rest (to pregnant ladies, to people that just had an operation, heart surgery, etc… before they used to assign ‘‘complete rest, don’t move’’, now they know that’s completely wrong… nothing worse than complete sedentary, in most cases).

In essence I think there’s a minimum amount of work that is better than being sedentary, in almost every situation. There’s certainly also a technique to it, not overdoing it.

2 Likes
7

I depends on a few things. What the rest of your life looks like. If you rest well, and eat well from day to day. It also depends on your training background, and possibly some genetics, but I think everyone could do it with the proper background or if they trained for it.

I have been training +/- 500 hours a year most of my adult life. The last couple of years I have stepped it up a bit as I have found joy in competing again, and I am looking at 700 hours or just shy of that in 2023. Thats with 3 interval days most week, the others with with two. I have one rest day per week, but on average that is close to two hours per day with hard training and 8 races (two long mtb marathon events, and one 7h mtb race, the rest 1-2 hour races). Hypothetically, I am pretty certain that my body would tolerate 2-2,5h of z2 every day without taking rest days without any issue at all. If you have sufficiant training background to handle the initial weeks or months without getting any overuse injuries, your body will eventually adjust to it.

That’s my reply to the thought experiment side of it. Do you need rest days if you’re only doing z2? Maybe. You need to pay attention, and listen to your body. Do you need recovery weeks? No. In my opinion, without knowing anything about your background, I would say you do not need recovery or easier weeks if your ambition in life is to do forever 2-2,5h z2 rides. :smiley:

2 Likes
8

When the world records for distance ridden in a year we’re being set. The riders were riding 12-18 hours a day for 365 days without a rest.

When I cycle commuted to work I was doing 2 hours of Z2, Z3 5 days a week, plus 3 hours of mountain biking on a Sat plus a decent mountain walk on Sunday. I did this for over 3 decades. Before that I cycled to University, before that I cycled to school. Getting around by bike for transport is just what I do.

What you are doing is certainly sustainable for many years without rest. Though you’ll get natural breaks every few months over the years from holidays.

There’s a rider in the UK who is verified as having ridden over 1,000,000 miles. I’ll leave you to work out how many days he must have had off.

In answer to do you need rest days from that load, the answer is no. Whether not having rest days is optimal is a different question. You of course have to define optimal for what?

3 Likes
9

This is a good point. Sounds crazy for normal people, and it was most likely not z2 riding, but still. It requires a solid background, but it’s a good example of what people are capable of.

Just to add to my post, this being the trainerroad forum, and the trend at the moment is San Millan z2, I made some assumptions that we are talking high z2 in general, and most likely indoors without coasting. So continuous high z2 for 2-2,5h. He mentions 65-70%, so I think that is what he is talking about. I do not agree that everyone can do that without taking rest days. And even if we are not talking about high z2, people are asking for overuse injuries if they start riding their bike every single day without proper background.

He is asking for needs, not what is optimal. If you are doing the same thing over and over I don’t think your main concern is optimizing performance in any way. :man_shrugging:

10

I have been in “no rest days” mode since September. There has been some off days due family/work but not because I have felt need for it. During TR plan off days I simply do Gibbs -1 (2h at 55%, 61 TSS), which according to Garmin smartwatch does not add anything to recovery time. This way I have been balancing between Maintenance / Productive load.

Typical week looks like:

image
image1586×420 61.8 KB

I do not intend to keep it up forever, just until Rapha Festive 500. From next year will use TR off day for cross training (~1h rowerg, strictly in HR Z1/Z2, no attempt for progressive overload except initial adjustment to new type of load).

1 Like
11

You can recover while riding easy. Probably 55-60% ftp. Sometimes I’ll ride well below 50% ftp. No need to literally take a day off of exercise unless you want to. It could help mental burnout tho if you need to increase your motivation

1 Like
12

No.

No one does.

1 Like
13
  • Seriously? I wish training was so simple to be covered by 1-line absolutes.

The sheer multitude of factors in a modern life must be considered in addition to “training” to best determine if and when people need full rest.

4 Likes
14

I have not listened to this yet, but considering the repeated comments from Kolie that people often need to rest more leads me to expect this may be a useful listen in the scope of this question.

2 Likes
15

We make things sound too complicated in these forums.

1 Like
16

There is truth in that statement, but I also doubt the solution is to boil the complexity down to a single sentence answer… unless it starts with “It depends…”.

1 Like
17

Absolutely.

This is very training history dependent:

  • if you doubt and have to ask, don’t do it
  • if you have enough time to recover but sleep is restless, don’t do it
  • if you can recover but don’t have motivation, don’t do it

Basically, I only do it because I am actually decreasing volume from summer (3-8h/day with proper off days).

2 Likes
18

I definitely have complete Rest days, they are mental breaks from rigorous training days or hard events.

I recently tried a different training platform that didn’t have scheduled rest weeks included. I won’t say what one, but doing 10-12 hours a week with or without intensity starts taking a toll. They told me I had to get to a certain level before they would suggest recovery weeks.
Just like everything it’s individual and you shouldn’t justify what todo based on what someone says is good for you. Unless you have a certified coach telling you otherwise. You have to find out yourself what works for you.
I also feel if you don’t need rest or recovery days, you aren’t training hard enough. I haven’t listened to the empirical podcast yet but someone asked him this on Instagram last weekend.

IMG_1763
IMG_1763828×1792 136 KB

5 Likes
19

Well in essence it just depends on you. It can be an off day, or a deload day might be better. For sure it’s counterproductive to go 100% everyday. From what I understand, having some circulation rather than being sedentary is always better, as long as you’re conscious of what type of % you’ll be working at.

If I feel my hand grip is slightly weaker, I know I should not exert much in any type of training, then I’ll just take it very lightly.

You can take a scale with your hands, press as hard as you can. See how much kg/pounds you exert, then you use it as a reference. When you’re overworked, your hand grip strength should be lower.

1 Like
20

The section related to the “not training hard enough” comment starts around 0:48 or so in the podcast. It includes some examples and nuance that I find necessary here.

1 Like