Roast my training!

This is a crosspost from reddit, who suggested I might get helpful answer here:

I am looking for advice on how to get (a lot) faster. I like to do local fondo-type events (road, gravel, ‘easy’ MTB races), as well as travel with my road bike.

With a few exceptions, I usually finish in the bottom third of the field in events. I do not possess any gifts for cycling, but I am determined to overcome my seemingly poor genetics .

Current fitness:

I am currently at 218 watts FTP, which at 69kg equates to 3,16 w/kg. I’m a 36yo male.

In terms of power, that is probably up there around the most fit i’ve ever been, but as I have historically been around 65kg, it’s still a bit off my best w/kg. fitness. I’ve been at or around this level of fitness since the end of february, when I came back from a loss of fitness over the fall (lack of training/motivation)

Training history:

I bought my first road bike in 2016, and i’ve been training more or less regularly since. There has been the occasional pause, but never longer than 3 months. I’ve been doing structured training with Trainerroad on/off since around 2020. I usually average 5.000-7.000 km’s pr. year.

Throughout this calendar year, i’ve been training 6+ hours pr week, following custom plan builder relatively strictly. As mentioned, I have not seen any significant progression since february.

Over the winter i’ve been adding in weekly strength training, but as spring rolled around that went out the window.

Both my professional and private life allows plenty of time for recovery and generally does not add significant stress.

Link to training history here

Note for any deep-divers: I had two periods, in the spring of 2020 and spring of 2021 with quite good power numbers. I suspect this was caused by an overly optimistic set of PowerTap pedals more than sudden heroic fitness

Fuelling:

I usually shoot for 60g/hour on Z1/Z2 workouts and about 100g/hour in all other workouts. Outside of workouts I probably eat healthier than the general population, but also tend to go a little overboard on the amount I eat (which would explain why i’m 4 kg’s above my ‘normal’ weight)

I love greens and veggies, and my diet is mostly vegetarian or pescetarian.

I don’t drink or smoke, and I don’t take any medication.

Goals:

I would love to occasionally finish races with one of the faster groups, and consistently be in the faster half of the finishers (barring any mechanicals etc.)

I occasionally ride with a small group of friends, all of whom is notably faster than me without any structured or consistent training at all - I would really like to be able to hang on in those rides, and maybe even not be last up the hills. I guesstimate that would probably take around 3,5-3,8 w/kg FTP, so quite a significant jump from my current fitness.

More than anything, I feel like I am investing a lot (both literally and figuratively) only to come up ‘slightly below average’.

How should I change my training and lifestyle to achieve these goals over the coming fall/winter?

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Gradually increase your volume over 3 week blocks, take rest (lower load) weeks every four weeks. Try to also increase volume block by block. Judge yourself on consistency. Listen to your body to ensure that consistency. Try not to get distracted by marginal gain stuff.

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Add more hours. They don’t have to be more than Z2. 6 hours a week is very very low for a cyclist. Many get more than that on the weekend alone. If you find yourself overly fatigued, lose some of the intensity. I find low volume training plans to be overly intense for me, and I am constantly exhausted from every ride being hard.

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I noticed a lot of failed threshold workouts even ones where the workout level seems low, so it appears FTP was definitely set too high.

Also generally, from looking at some of your past training I struggled to see what the focus of any period was. See my last week below as an example of what IMO a good focus looks like, note my work stress is fairly high at the moment, so I’m maxing out with 2x intensity p/w. Also am similar age to you (37), and am increasingly finding I need to space my intervals with 2 easy days between.

Your upcoming block looks much better structured/focused, however I’d also question the VO2/anaerobic focus. If you want to increase FTP, work around threshold and progress intervals. Good example for a threshold progression: 2x20, 3x15, 3x20, 2x30, 1x60.

As others said, you can’t go wrong with more hours. On the longer days, keep it in Z2.

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Not sure if this is an issue or not, but I do see you doing a lot of outdoor rides that may or may not be actually doing the workout prescribed.

The point: make sure you are really adhering to the specific workouts you’re given. Do the intervals at the target power levels, and this is a LOT easier on the trainer.
Possible outside, but requires the right road and paying attention. Consistency and execution of the specific workout matters and you can’t go out and just ride a lot or hit a target NP and call it good, or just go ride hard and call it “VO2”

Agree with the above comments on volume.

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Valid points, thanks.

Re: the failed workouts, that’s a good catch, TR also adjusted my FTP slightly (-4 watts) following the 3-4 failed workouts. I have self-diagnosed that it happens because weather here is warm-ish (about 22C), but rainy and humid, so when i’m doing hard sessions indoors i really struggle, even with efforts that would not be very uncomfortable outside. I have a huge fan and don’t feel overly hot, but I still think it may be heat related.

I fully agree about the VO2 workouts, but not sure how to change them consistently? As mentioned, i’ve built the plan in plan builder, so all I did was to tell it my events and my available time, and it has assigned my workouts from there

This is a little bit of the “You can’t have your cake and eat it too” scenario. If you want to get faster, you need to execute the workouts you’re given. If you eliminate workouts for free rides, fun rides, events - you’re sacrificing your training and getting faster because you want to go have fun on the bike.

What I’d do is - have fun during the summer and the good riding / event season. But, come off-season, set a plan and stick to it. Workouts and workout execution comes first. You really only need 2-3 intense workouts a week with the balance being endurance volume, but you need to respect those too and make sure your free riding and Z2 is not impacting your intervals / hard workouts.

I also agree - to build FTP, no anaerobic work. Blend of Sweet Spot, Threshold, VO2. Anaerobic should be in specialty phase if the type of event you choose requires it. If you’re looking to do longer events - pick a “Gran Fondo” plan or make sure the events on your calendar reflect that.

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What a great thread title, inspiring!

I was in a similar space ten years ago, plus first road bike etc. my training 10th anniversary was last year, 7 of those using TR. Key differences: I was 90kg when I should have been 65, and triathlon not pure cycling.

From the comments and posts above it seems to me that you have a good enough handle on training and planning, it is the two key principles/factors that far out weigh the good advice but effectively nuances above.

. Consistency
. Progressive Overload

It took me years to find a way around my life to consistency, and that is what took me from back of the pack to middle of the pack.
1hr training one week and 11hrs training next week is 6hrs on average but a 0 for consistency.

Progressive Overload gives you the continual improvement you are looking for…but it could also be your limiter. You can only get so good with 4hrs, a bit more if 6hrs are available, increasing intensity helps but only so much and eventually fuel and sleep won’t recover you enough for the next ride.

There is nothing wrong with how fit you are, and you can rest on your laurels after you’ve optimised those 6hrs and had reasonable consistency over a few years, or you can increase the training and there are several ‘stealth’ methods to do so.

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Hey @ydegaard,

Welcome to the forum! :partying_face:

It looks like you’ve already gotten some really good feedback from the community!

:point_up: This is something I noticed as well. It’s hard to tell based on your training history if you’re actually following a training plan or not. It seems like although you have really good consistency with your riding, you don’t have quite as strong of consistency with your structured training. I’d recommend doing your best to find a plan that will help you work towards your goals and then follow it as best as you can. You’re really good at knocking out your workouts outside, so you’ve already got that! :sunglasses:

If you’re interested in chatting a bit more about which plan might work best for your goals, let me know! I’d be happy to help with that. :grin:

Additionally, following the plan also means resting when needed. It looks like you could use a bit more restraint during rest weeks. It’s rare to find a week in your recent training history where you’ve kept it easy the entire time. Without these rest weeks, your body won’t have an opportunity to turn all of the hard work into physical adaptations. You have to rest to get faster! :sleeping_bed: :muscle:

:point_up_2: This is great! You can definitely do well on a vege/pescetarian diet. The focus here should be on getting enough protein and carbohydrates throughout the day. Even though you seem to be fueling well, you’ll still need to consume enough of all three macronutrients day after day to nourish your body and many athletes actually struggle to get enough protein and carbohydrates in during the harder Build phases of their plan. I’d maybe do an exercise of some macro counting just to get an idea of what you should be getting in on a daily basis for nutrition.

I personally wouldn’t focus on weight at this point. Your power-to-weight ratio can be a useful metric when considering long, sustained climbs, but generally speaking, power is more important. It can be really hard to sustainably increase your power while maintaining your weight much less losing weight. There are several cases where pro cyclists struggled to perform until they actually put on some lean mass and then they were really able to really show their potential. :balance_scale:

If you find that at the end of the season, you can lose some weight and remain healthy, I’d recommend doing that during the off-season when you can shift your metabolism to focus on that. Right now your goal should be to fuel your body to do the work to get faster.
:potato: :carrot: :peanuts: :rice: :tangerine: :banana: :strawberry: :avocado:

Generally speaking, I think you have what it takes to take things to the next level. Focus on finding the right plan and sticking to it as often as you can. Eat and sleep well and try to live a mentally healthy lifestyle which includes riding your bike for the love of it as often as you need to to stay motivated. With a little focus and discipline, I’m sure you’ll get there!!

Just shout if I can help out with anything along the way. :handshake:

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4 watts isn’t going to make or break you to the point of passing or failing multiple workouts. There’s more to it than that. Are you using the same power meter indoors as out?

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First… thanks for posting your calendar. So many ask these type of questions without this and makes it difficult to give the best answer. :+1:t2:

You got some great responses already, but in the spirit of roasting… you got to ride more man. A lot more. Of course we only have the time we have (so there’s that). Low volume and high intensity work great for short events but if you really want to be good at things like gravel races & fondos (that tend to be longer events) there’s no short cuts. You need more volume.

To this point, I think you need more time in the tempo/sweet spot range. Threshold is hard and should be hard, but you are failing workouts pretty early into the session. I prefer to push the threshold up from the bottom (tempo/SS) rather than pull it up from the top (VO2/Super-threshold). Once you can increase time in zone @ sweet spot and successfully finish workouts, then focus on 5-15 min reps at threshold. Again… build up.

I mean really they’re not a lot to roast here. Just be more consistent and ride your bike more.

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No unfortunately not. My gravel bike and my road bike have separate power meters, indoors I am riding a backup road bike with the power from a Tacx Flux.
I do not seem to have this issue (at least not to the same extent) during the colder months, where my percieved effort is similar for the same power output indoors and out.

Edit: I should clarify the reason i’m talking about weather for indoor riding: Right not the room i’m training in is slightly warm and humid. In the winter, I can easily get it down to 10C-15C, which makes for a more comfortable experience

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Different environments, different power meters….a pinch of salt for both, and move on.