Any noticeable differences or just the price tag?
Noise.
There a long thread about waxing AXS chains and how much noise they produce because wax is noisier than lube
edit: here it is
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Materials used and therefore weight. That’s basically it.
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RED: milled from one part. Therefore lighter and no vibration noise
Force: Multiple parts combined with some kind of rivets and bolts. Therefore heavier and some vibration noise.
On the road no problem with the noise. On indoor i still run Shimano (a fishing equipment company)
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Got the Force 10-32 and the Red 10-28.
Force definitely a bit noisier (I’m using Force 12 speed chains so far, but will try a Red chain this summer).
Huge weight difference between those two cassettes (though unfair comparison with the 32 cog on the Force one).
Both excellent though, love the shifting and that 10 to 32 range is divine on a road bike. We have nasty sharp climbs in the UK so having a cassette that can take you up anything, no matter what your form is… I love it.
I’d say the 10-32 with the 48/35 up front is almost the perfect setup for do anything use for almost all riders. Just lacks a bit of high end speed in very limited situations (130 cadence in the 45 x 10t to do 45mph for example), which sometimes makes it feel like you’re capped.
Big tangent there, but just some thoughts in case others are thinking of moving to 12 speed.
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Continuing the tangent…Yeah I was hesitant with the 48/35 up front with the 10-33 in back.
However, sprinting is virtually identical (48/10 at 120rpm=45.3mph while a 53/11=45.5). I am sprinting better than ever, which is not necessarily related to gearing, just that it’s not holding me back. And ^^^ that’s not saying I can get to 45mph on the flat with a lead out (I can’t), but the 1 tooth jumps to get to the 10 if needed is nice. The real difference is at the other end with the 35/33 especially if you like fast leg speed climbing. I write this for anyone contemplating the gearing. Have a look at something like bikecalc.com.
Anywho, looks like not much difference in performance. I’ll save my $$. Thanks all!
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*10-33
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In terms of “performance” the biggest reason for me to go RED would be the weight of the cranks. Apparently the biggest weight saving.
Concerning the ratios: I choose the 10-33 mainly for two reasons: High cadence climbing and at some point pulling a baby trailer up the hills. I also have only the 46/33 chainring setup. It’s fine for 98% of my riding but I spin out a little bit to early. Therefore IMO the perfect setup for most of us is 48/35 in the front and the magical 10-33 in the back.
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Amazing how a fishing company can make better bike parts than a bike parts company
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100 years of bike experience. 3 times as much as Sram. Also, some things are better, some are not.
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Yeah I’ve spent the vast majority of my life riding Shimano.
There’s good reason increasing numbers of us have moved to eTap and now AXS. SRAM have leapfrogged Shimano.
That said, I also think the shifting difference is curious. I bought moving to SRAM’s shifting would be weird, but then you realise it’s more intuitive, and removes fat glove error out of the equation.
Any examples of how, aside from having 1 extra gear in the back? I don’t have experience with road AXS but my Eagle AXS doesn’t shift as nice (smooth, quiet, etc) as my Ultegra Di2 under load, without load it’s comparably smooth and quiet. I’ve ridden some older SRAM road stuff and it wasn’t better than Shimano in my opinion so wondering what’s all the rage now?
Truly wireless for 2 generations now and well yes, 12 speed now.
These are major engineering wins. Sure Shimano has more experience with refining tooling, so what. SRAM is leading the industry where it matters.
If you don’t appreciate or care for wireless, or increased gear ranges then that’s fine. But that’s what the groupset is about. We’d still be on 7 speed if no-one cared.
I can take an eTap or AXS groupset and literally set it up in about 4 to 5 minutes out of the box. The thought of doing a Di2 install now just makes me want to facepalm. So dated.
Ive never understood this as a selling point. You generally set a bike up once, maybe better if you’re traveling. For me it’s the equivalent of power seats in a car, I never move mine so what’s the benefit
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I don’t see the group sets as being anything like power seats on a car.
But if you set your bike up once and never do any bike maintenance that’s great. Hope one day I find a magic bike that never needs stripped or any work done to it.
If there’s no benefit to you, then there’s no benefit to you.
For the rest of us flocking to SRAM, the benefit is time saved and less frustration.
Either was that doesn’t matter. Anyone talking about group sets opinionatedly would at least genuinely appreciate the engineering leapfrog of 12 speed and true wireless.
That isn’t subjective. That’s objectively an engineering leapfrong.
They’re advantages, absolutely, but not leapfrogging anything IMO. Adding a gear is an improvement, removing wires is an improvement of course. Creating a chain less or gear-less mass produced drivetrain would be leapfrogging.
Koenniggsegg leapfrogged the car industry when they came up with their gear-less transmission in the Regara, I can’t say the same for when someone came out with a 7 or 8 or 10 speed transmission.
Of course all opinions, and seems like I’ve derailed this thread a bit so I’ll cut back on that
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No, it’s not an opinion.
Taking a road bike groupset from 11 to 12 speed, and making it wireless is an engineering leapfrog. You can play semantics with it, call it what you like.
But you know what it is.
And Shimano is now two steps behind SRAM.
You seem personally offended by my preference. Take a chill pill 
Things Shimano does better IMO:
- quieter
- a little quicker shifting
- very reliable on both mechs
- longest lasting battery I know
- lighter
- a little more efficient
- easier to upgrade to (as of 9100)/ more parts available
- true pro chainrings available
Things SRAM does better IMO:
- availability
- set up process (also adjustment on the fly)
- true Wireless (makes changes etc very easy)
- better gear ratios, more gears, much wider range (much better for climbs if you aren’t World Tour level)
- great 1X
- more intuitive shifting
- spare battery/ battery swap possible
- better power meter out of the box
Also, talking if companies, ZIPP wheels are vastly superior to Shimano wheels imho.
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Shimano is also massively cheaper. SRAM may last longer, but the cost difference appears 3x from what I’ve seen.