Wow! What a wonderfully detailed answer. Thanks so much.
Ya the first dayâs squats definitely had me feeling lots of parts of my hamstrings I havenât felt since I last lifted. I did my second day of lifting yesterday morning, and itâs already not affecting me as severely.
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Appreciate your thoughts on a few programming questions.
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What are your thoughts on the sort of âcoaches memeâ that you progress from strength to power across a periodised program. An example of this might be a period where your lifts focus on 1rm rather than rate of force, or the withholding of stuff like cleans and trap bar jumps until later in a season, focusing earlier on stuff like a leg press.
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Do you have any thoughts on when to introduce heavy single leg work. I have tended to do so closer to the race season, focusing on compound bilateral stuff early on, but common sense makes me think âwork single leg first to iron out imbalances then progressâ.
Alternatively, do you see both of these as accessory or focus lifts in the early season - ie are you squatting but maybe doing some single leg rdl before or after, or are you sacrificing / sharing time under a bar with heavy 1l rdls?
Inspired by When's the best time to focus on single leg training? - Athletic Performance Academy
This is like a base, build, specialty programming for a competitive powerlifter or weightlifter. Hypertrophy â Strength/Power â Peak. This usually correlations with progressively lower rep ranges and higher loads. If you did low-reps forever, your strength gains would eventually taper off, limited by your muscle mass and volume tolerance (the fatigue to stimulus ratio is terrible). If you did higher reps forever, youâd end up like these bodybuilders, gawking at the strength of a climber half their size. The periodization attempts to maximize all the components of improved 1RM (see below) prior to a competition. If your sport does not revolve around a 1RM, thereâs much less to be gained from 1RMâing and quite a lot that can be lost. I havenât 1RMâd anything in years.
Idk when leg press would be programmed alone, other than a âwe donât trust you to not injure yourself squattingâ scenario. Leg press is a great leg developer but it is somewhat divorced from functional movement. Physique athletes can get away with leg press as a solo act. There was an interesting study where they compared leg press to squat on matched sets/reps, and while both groups got stronger, jump performances were significantly higher in he squat group. They arenât 1:1 replacements of each other, even if the movement is quite similar. Squat is not well-suited for high-rep hypertrophy work (form tends to crumble after 12+ reps), while leg press totally isâyou can go to failure and then some with less systemic fatigue and risk of injury. Meanwhile the skill of squat is more useful than the skill of leg press (for most applications at least), so it makes sense to put it in the rep range than develops technique better.
Iâm not familiar with cleans only appearing later in a season, given how technical the skill is. Sounds like a recipe for injury. Youâd want to keep some amount of cleans in rotation to rehearse the skill. The thing that will change is the rep ranges for clean. But for sports that arenât weightlifting, thereâs less of a need to dip into the super low numbers, other than on Max Day. One of the big differences most sports have compared to to weight/powerlifting is that they still need power and speed and vertical for practice. So youâll see more emphasis on these aspects year round.
I tend to think single leg work is a great accessory to their associated lifts, to be worked on in parallel, throughout the season. You can see where I put them in above, very similar to the link you shared. I donât do truly heavy (low rep) single leg work because:
- For stuff like bulgarians and SL RDLs, the (my) rate limiter is balance; these are typically programmed in the 8-15 rep range. Quadzilla is one of the few athletes Iâve seen with the skill and coordination to do insanely loaded Bulgarians at low reps. Heâs mastered the Bulgarian the way other athletes might master a clean, presumably because the lift is very beneficial to his discipline of sprint cycling.
- For stuff like single leg press, hamstring curls, leg extensions where there is almost zero technique involved, I just burn out the muscle between 10-20 @ 0 RIR, focusing on hypertrophy. Itâs a complement to squat and DL, which will almost never go above 10 reps or below 1-2 RIR. Iâd also consider stuff in the 5-10 range for leg press specifically. My thoughts on SL leg press for cycling have evolved over this past year, hence my elevation of the leg press to Big Lift status above.
I could see cutting out single-leg work to make time for other things that might be more competition-relevant as you near the season. For most people single leg work is aimed at rounding out strength and coordination imbalances. In my case I have a severe left/right imbalance downstream of old knee injuries. So fixing my right quad is a constant priority.
Or the opposite could be true! There are disciplines where heavy single leg might be something to focus on for sport-specific strength. Like I mentioned above, Quadzilla drills heavy Bulgarians quite frequently, which no doubt help him in his sprint discipline.
Everything is highly dependent on what your goals are. I think people often make the mistake of cargo-culting whatever the powerlifters/MMA fighters/crossfitters do in the gym (because theyâre so strong!!!) without thinking critically about what aspects of these regimes arenât optimal for general purposes, but rather the specific requirements of the respective sports.
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Much obliged.
Iâve always felt comparatively strong on single leg stuff; perhaps having perennially been in and out of injury rehabilitation. 90kg 1L RDL against a 165 deadlift; 115 reverse lunges against a 140 squat (for similar reps).
Lifting for me is 30% long term health and injury prevention, 30% sports (cycling and running) performance, 20% intrinsic satisfaction and 10% aesthetics. I also massively value simplicity; both in terms of avoiding decision fatigue (just get on and do something and be consistent at it) and in time - this is why I loathe bullshit exercises.
Iâm not familiar with cleans only appearing later in a season, given how technical the skill is
I didnât think that I found the clean that technical (I have been doing them for several years) but then again I tried the trap bar jump from one of your articles and enjoyed it. I think I could be more consistent (in terms of getting a full triple extension, and in terms of progressing to a genuinely high % of 1RM) with it than the clean without injury; as I have found that at a certain weight (usually somewhere between bw x 1.2 and 1.4) I end up having to olympic clean the weight, at which point it sort of just becomes a front squat. The idea of removing the clean was that it is a âpowerâ exercise, rather than a âstrengthâ one (obviously these lines are pretty blurry), and âstrength theoryâ bits often state that you should focus on strength first, then move into exercises which prioritise rate of force production over total load (I could spend the clean day doing single or even bilateral leg press which I can load with pretty much every plate in the gym).
For stuff like single leg press, hamstring curls, leg extensions where there is almost zero technique involved, I just burn out the muscle between 10-20 @ 0 RIR, focusing on hypertrophy. Itâs a complement to squat and DL, which will almost never go above 10 reps or below 1-2 RIR.
Your program above has 1L Leg Press as a primary lift in the strength range; is this simply becasue you have direct major muscle imbalances? If you did not have this, would your third day / third major lift be another bilateral lower body lift - and not leg press?
Whatâs your justification for the relatively large amount of time allocated to relatively high rep-range core work when your program already has a significant amount of indirect core work (front squats, deadlifts etc etc)?
To me, clean = the first part of an olympic clean + jerk. The bar path, hip drive, and ATG pull under the bar are pretty technical and stuff starts to break down at high weights. Thereâs 5 phases in the lift which have their own accessories for practice. Are you power or hang cleaning? Thatâs a bit different, and yeah, those are less technical.
Cleaning is also fun, so I would not discount it as much when you try to optimize your workout, if itâs something you enjoy.
Do I have it in the strength range? Itâs Rxâd as â3-4 sets of 10-20 @ 0-1 RIRâ but I would also do 5-10 as well. Itâs a lift where I think I can discern an impact on my cycling; I talked to a coach whose experience matched mineâhe said that he didnât feel some of his leg work had as much impact on his cycling until he started doing some single leg work.
My thoughts on the leg press have evolved some and Iâm mulling over the idea that the skill of pressing hard with one leg while very flexed at the hip might have some benefits specific to cycling. The position of most leg presses is very unnaturalâone of the reasons it is so lampooned in the non-physique athletic community (and evidence suggests this bias is somewhat founded). However cycling is also a very unnatural position, which isnât too dissimilar to the leg pressâvery flexed at the hips. It might the only sport where thereâs some functional qualities to leg press (more specifically the single leg variant).
[EDIT: I was thinking about this more in my lifting session today and my muscle group that really seems to protest during the single leg variant of leg press is gluteus medius, the major hip stabilizer. If you think of the mechanics of cycling, you will get better force transfer when your hips are stable. This could explain my and the aforementioned coachâs observations that leg work in the gym seemed to be unlocked by single-leg work. If this is true, single leg work is in fact a lot more important than most programs assume.]
The elevation to Big Lift is somewhat experimental, and I noted above that I think it could be folded into one of the other two days. You also have to understand that I was coming from a place of strong bias against the leg press and have since started to begrudgingly accept that it might be useful based on my own experience.
I feel like my program is very light on dedicated core work. 1 dedicated core exercise per session. 3 sets, largely at the appropriate rep range for the particular exercise. Most cycling lifting programs I see do a 3x3 ab circuit, which Iâve certainly had programmed for me in other sports. The thing is that abs are often an afterthought, cranked out as fast as possible at the end of a lift. I think if youâre loading your torso with compounds, you can get away with less core, especially if you load the core work like any other lift and train close to failure.
Core is just a different beast when it comes to rep ranges. Itâs almost like the range got shifted upwards. 8 reps might be considered low for core. A lot of core work involves spinal flexion, possibly rotation, which puts the vertebrae in an vulnerable position. So you need to balance loading the core enough with the risks. Stuff where the spine is in a neutral, braced position can be pushed more (eg, weighted sit up). There are other reasons higher ranges are generally used, but truthfully I havenât thought too hard about it and just osmosed the conventional ranges over the years. If thereâs one place to be risk adverse, itâs with stuff involving the spine.
Hey Samus - regarding bilateral leg press, have you or your coach performed the press with a low and extremely narrow stance (feet 4-6 inches apart)? I agree re: single leg leg press but found that placing the feet very, very close together was amazing for pedaling power.
I have not tried this but it makes sense. We have some evidence that foot position on press doesnât matter as much for overall hypertrophy. So your observation would lend some credit to leg press being a useful skill for cycling. Iâll give it a go sometime. Also see this edit I added above:
So trying to integrate single leg work and a bit of core throughout the season into a two-a-week program, abiding my own principles of âheavy, leg focus, repeat exercises to lower the novelty domsâ hasnât been going so well.
A
GPP
Squat 5x3+
Deadlift 3x10
Barbell 1L RDL 3x15
SS Hanging Raises / Pull up 3x15B
GPP
Deadlift 5x3+
Squat 3x10
Bulgarian Split 3x15
SS Russian Twists / Dip 3x15
I am both shattered the day after (too shattered to do more than an easy 60-90 min spin, though I am doing these on double days normally with running) and the workout is now taking me 1h30 consistently which, when I add 30mins in the sauna for heat training, is too long.
Suggestions?
Drop from 1-2 RIR to 3+ RIR? (Aka less intensity)
Reduce reps on the 1L stuff? (Less volume?)
Drop an exercise?
Donât do the AMRAP set on the heavy lift?
Am I missing any muscle group for overall health?
Iâd drop the AMRAP. Itâs excess volume and fatigue which is ok when youâre only lifting and probably have the next day off or on other body parts but for cycling then yeahâŚ
Youâre doing 11 sets on your quads/glutes. Iâve been lifting for a decade and thatâs what I do for hypertrophy, with 3-4 days to recover each muscle group. No way would I give that to someone who lifts a few weeks/months a year.
For strength, drop to 1-2 sets per session of 4 reps or less, then for everything else drop to 2 sets. Consider clustering your deadlifts and squats together so youâre grooved into the motor pattern by doing a heavy set or two then backoff sets for some volume, which is a powerlifting staple.
After that, how you approach it depends what you want to get out of this. If youâre looking for both strength and hypertrophy, keep the reps in the range you feel youâre getting close to your muscular limit (within 3 RIR) but not aerobically or neurally taxed. Guessing this may be in the 6-10 range on single leg, and 5-8 for squat and deadlift. Youâre not getting DOMS from novelty, youâre getting it because you are destroying yourself. Just like in cycling, we can see faster improvements from increasing the program intensity, but we also risk a massive dropoff in compliance/adherence at some point. Leave some effort in the tank for next time. You want to look for a reasonable minimum dose that fits into your overall goals right now, not just the maximum you can barely squeak by with.
If you want overall health, add in a push and a pull, and some hip abduction. I think hanging raises are silly, switch for lying on a bench.
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Iâve been lifting for about 15 years - rather than being a cyclist late to lifting. I lift year around, and I previous years have lifted 3-4 times in the offseason, and 2 in season.
The aim this year was to reduce the amount of lifting preseason so I donât spend half of it trying to strip weight off, hence only 2 sessions per week.
I agree I think the AMRAP is hurting me a lot, although I do feel like the strength gains are noticeable.
But youâre suggesting going from 11 sets at my working weights in the off season to 2 sets total. Did I understand you correctly?
2 sets per exercise, so 6 sets. And a single set for strength is usually enough if youâre looking to reduce fatigue. Additionally, what youâre doing out of the gym can have an effect too but since I have no info there, I canât comment on that.
Iâm not really sure what this means in terms of programming goals? Or⌠strip weight off what, the bar? Your body?
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My body. I race better at about 74-76kg, but after the winter I find myself closer to 80-82. A lot of it is muscle - my bf doesnât vary much more than a few % year round.
Outside of this Iâm doing about 10hrs a week of 2/3 bike, 1/3 running, with relatively small amounts of intensity (torque and tempo work on bike, strides and hills on foot), and another hour or so of passive heat training. About 4-500 TSS. I train 3d on, 1d off, and usually lift and then sauna on the last day.
Iâd reorient your goals, then. Lift in such a way that doesnât add muscle but improves strength for the muscle you have. I think the hypertrophy volume youâre doing doesnât make any sense if thatâs your goal. Adding in âtorqueâ work on the bike to an already intense lifting program is a guarantee for burnout, IME.
If youâre a cyclist first, then prioritize cycling and make lifting work in service of those goals. If youâre doing both, accept that youâll have to make tradeoffs to lift the way you want to and then ride the way you want to. But hey itâs your program so do what you want, though you did ask for input.
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Can I ask what your percentiles are on DL and squat? Iâm reading between the lines here, but if the load for triples doesnât scare you, I would guess you are either a seasoned powerlifter or youâre still at a point in your training where you could be getting decent strength gains in the 5-8 rep range (which would be far less systemically fatiguing). If youâre trying to avoid hypertrophy, then you donât need as much volume.
If youâre truly at a point where you need to minimize the weight gains, Iâd consider moving DL out of the program. At least, as youâve programmed it, I see a lot of downsides. Itâs one of the most systemically fatiguing lifts in the book, and on your AMRAP youâre doing it in a very systemically fatiguing rep range. It also is a big mass-gainer, and the proportions of what it develops arenât the best for cycling if you really progress the lift (a lot of back/erector/trap). I truly believe most cyclists would stand to benefit from regular DL⌠up until a point (and 95+% of cyclists are not at that point). Iâd nix pulling from the ground and switch over to RDLs (or straight legâitâs a continuum) for more focus on hamstrings. You might also consider BB hip thrusts, maybe.
A trick Iâve heard from climbers is to eat less protein during strength training to avoid the mass gains. This is all anecdote, though.
A lot of systemic fatigue comes from axial loading plus the bracing needed to stabilize an exercise with high degrees of freedom, along with mental fatigue from coordinating a compound movement. Ifâafter modifying to a 2-3x5+ âyou still find the systemic fatigue is interfering with cycling, you could look at Smith or hack machines to reduce degrees of freedom. Belt squat will reduce axial load. Leg press reduces both. All come with their own tradeoffs.
You might try:
A
GPP
Squat 2-3x5-8
*Hip Thrusts/Belt Squat 2-3x10+ (maybe⌠might be too much volume still)
Barbell 1L RDL 3x15
SS Hanging Raises / Pull up 3x15B
GPP
RDL 2-3x5-8
Leg Press/Hack/Smith 2-3x10+ (maybe⌠might be too much volume still)
Bulgarian Split 3x15
SS Russian Twists / Dip 3x15
*Iâm spitballing a little here, but you might consider another squat accessory in this slot and rotating it with a DL accessory. Right now the program is 50/50 squat/DL. Squat is a more important lift to cyclists than DL and does a pretty good job hitting the posterior chain on its own. Most cyclists have a neglected posterior and can get some easy gains from a 50/50 split shoring up posterior chain engagement. Once youâre past that point, I might think critically about which part of cycling / pedal stroke is the weakest and needs the most attention.
I have the opposite opinion, as someone who has more recently switched to hanging leg raises after a lifetime of leg raises/candlesticks on a bench. Modified candlestick is the only thing that comes close to proper leg raises, imo, and itâs more awkward (a lot of strain on the shoulders to control the eccentric). For leg raises you just have to get past the point where hip flexors are the rate-limiter, and thatâs not a bad thing for a cyclist to address. Grip limitations can be solved with straps, which was the ah-hah moment for me. Even if you have the grip strength, the straps help you mentally focus on the core work.
Either way, just see what gives you the best core stimulus. For me itâs definitely the hanging variety.
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Much obliged to you both @empiricalcycling and @Samus.
71% on Squat, 87% on Deadlift. I see your point about the systemic fatigue. I think I could benefit from switching from 3x5 to 5x3 and will introduce that, nix the AMRAP and drop to two sets of secondary and single leg exercises as first steps. Iâll have a think about dead volume - those numbers above should be closer together I suspect!
The plan is to keep this going until build phase, at which point Iâll keep the core lifts but start to trade in some rare of force production work like trap bar jumps etc.
Thatâs helpful context. Fwiw, powerlifters typically only train in the low rep ranges periodically. The systemic fatigue is bad and the injury risk is high. You could try to figure out how to work lower reps into a periodized plan. But again, idk, injury risk. My lifting buddy will occasionally do doubles/triplesâI never touch them. You can guess which one of us gets injured more than the other (and thatâs saying something, because Iâm the one with the history of orthopedic surgeries).
I donât think the single leg exercises are hurting you as much, as Bulgarians and SL RDLs tend to be limited by coordination more than strength. I donât know anyone who can really load SL RDLsâglute medius will fail before the hams get fatigued. But it depends on how skilled you are at these lifts. [EDIT: That said, I find Bulgarians very mentally fatiguing, like every other human on the planet.]
Itâs the 3x10 of DL and squat that I would exchange for accessories that have less systemic fatigue (on top of swapping the 3+ rep days for 5+ rep days).
EDIT 2:
Further thoughts. If youâre in the 87th percentile on deadlift and youâre worried about mass gains to the point that youâre willing to sacrifice full-body strength, then you really have no business pulling from the floor. The dirty secret: deadlift is not as good of a ham/glute developer as people make it out to be. Itâs the jack of all trades, master of none, as far as the posterior chain is concerned. Still an important, functional skill to have, and probably one of the most satisfying lifts in terms of absolute man/womanhood. But at the 87th percentile oneâs posterior upper body will be more developed than any cyclist needs. (And to those reading this wondering if they should stop deadliftingâgo see how your maxes compare. Most cyclists are nowhere near the point where this is a concern.)
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Last week I dug up an old training log from 1993-94 when I was going nuts at the gym - high intensity and high volume three days a week plus riding. I noticed a fantastic exercise I had completely forgotten about and started doing again last week: smith machine pistol squats. No balance or coordination required, no cheating by pushing off with a rear leg like with the lunge and, with full flexion it blasts both glutes and quads to a degree that other exercises canât touch. Cool thing is you can just use the bar or you can throw plates on it and work really hard if you want. Tip: emphasize the heel not the ball of the foot.
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