Hi Ashman. My experience is very similar. Being riding for about 5 years, joined TR last November and my first ever ride on a turbo was the ramp test for a 243 FTP. Started straight into SSBLV I & II with very strong compliance except for a short illness. FTP went to 280 in January and then 304 at start of SPBLV. On starting SPBLV I found it really difficult to finish any workout and I was lowering intensity by 3, 5, and eventually 8%. This might start half way through the interval sets. I stumbled through to the first rest week, failing a good few workouts, and feeling really discouraged. That rest week turned into a 3 week break where I mostly did a little light running and the odd TR session, not following any plan. I bumped my FTP down to 299.
Anyway 2 weeks ago I started SPBLV again (I went back to beginning). FTP on ramp test was 290. I’ve been getting through the workouts - they are challenging but I’m finishing them without being wrecked for days and dreading the next one. 1 more week to a rest week again and I’m feeling really good.
My advice would be as others have said to bump your FTP down a bit until the workouts are challenging but achievable. The way I think about it now is to compare the approach indoors to an outdoor ride. There’s no point in setting out every week for a ride with a group that’s too fast for you and you’re getting dropped early and not completing. Better to build your strength and speed by completing the intended route with a group that’s actually matched to your current skills and abilities. This for me is a lower FTP.
I don’t know if this is the fastest or exactly optimal approach, but at least it keeps it motivating and fun. In my case, I’m following TR to become an all over stronger and faster rider, but it’s just for the love of bikes and speed (I don’t race) so if I lose a few percent for my max potential it’s not the end of the world. Good luck whatever you decide!
@Sten Thanks. I think I’m going to follow what you did and have a bit of a break. I went out for a ride this morning with the aim of doing 80km but had nothing in my legs so turned around after 15km. I’m going to give myself a good 1 or even two weeks break, save perhaps for a couple of light aero sessions like Pettit. Then I’ll start SPBMV again and see how it goes. It’s not like I’m going to be racing this year so I don’t have a schedule I need to stick to.
Hi. I’m struggling too with SPB Low Volume. My experience :
Had a bump from 253 to 266w SSB to SPB. 3.9w/kg. Tought my ftp could be a bit overestimated due an over the target last minute power in Ramp Test.
Could do all the workouts ok until the 2 last ones before rest week where I struggled so HARD and took many backpedals. This on the trainer
Did my rest, thinking that would be the thing. Did a Coggan 20min Test in a 6% gradient hill outside, 292w for 20 min, so 277w ftp. Did an entrie week of training there (I can only ride there for now). Some struggle in hard intervals but did it!.
Rain week, back to the trainer. First vo2max 120% workout 2.5min, 4 rest have to lower to 98% and I can do it. Middle interval I got dizzy, had to stretch on the floor and took a gel. Completed it with one or two short backpedals for interval.
Today 4x10min at 105%, that would be 291w outside, I’ve lowered to 95% (277w) and struggled so hard, had to stop many times after 2nd interval. I’ve felt a lot of helplessness and rage beeing unable to complete some “easy” intervals. My mind just couldn’t, after 2 min of pedalling my legs stopped and I wasn’t even breathing that hard, but my legs were burnt on low or high cadence and my mind weak.Put all my effort and rage and could complete but with so many breaks.
While in the trainer two last workouts I’ve felt the need to stop training and forget about my bike. Not a good sign. Demoralized touching my objective (4wpkg) and getting kicked from there.
So I’ve swallowed my pride and lowered ftp manually to from 277 (4wpkg) to 260 (3.8wpkg) to at least keep consistent with training. I hope to recover from this and at least keep training motivated and achieving my objectives, trying some intervals I can’t handle it’s pointless.
How did you do during SSBI and II? Might consider going back to base and repeating that if you aren’t ready for SPB yet.
Also this sounds like it might be a fueling issue. If you make it through SSB you should be at least somewhat prepared for SPB even with a bump in FTP. What is your nutrition/sleep like? Is there unusual life stress going on (aside from the obvious) at the moment that might be limiting your preparedness for actual training stress?
It sounds like you’re referring to Dade +1 and Mt Hale as “easy” intervals? They both have IF = 0.9. That’s definitely not what most people would consider easy.
Are you using your outdoor FTP to do the trainer workouts? If so, do you use the same power meter indoors and out? That could be it? Of even if you are, people commonly report higher outdoor FTPs for various reasons. Since .9 IF workouts should already have you on the edge, even a couple % high could be a big problem. Backing off the FTP a bit sounds like a good plan.
I’ve just hit a similar issue on SusPB LV. Haven’t failed a single workout on SSB1 and SSB2. Started SusPB LV with an FTP of 252 and had no issues with the first 3 weeks, even increasing the difficulty on some of the over/unders.
Did the ramptest in week 5, hit a 258W FTP and immediately struggled hard on Washington +4. This feels like a huge step up from the over/unders in the first half of the plan. Higher intensity and lower rest. Legs were shaking after the 3rd interval and I had to drop power down to 90% for most of the 4th and 5th interval. In the end I averaged about 28 minutes with an HR > 90% of my max and around 8 minutes > 95%.
Looking at the workout, it only shows an IF of .89, but this is very misleading because of the long warmup and cooldown. The actual 47 minutes of work have an IF of 0.97!
Glad to see I’m not the only one struggling. Hope my body pulls through and I can nail the coming workouts. Starting back at SSB1 after this plan should feel like a breeze
I find these extended 105% intervals super hard. Today I had the follow-up suprathreshold workout (Mt Hale - 9 min intervals) to the previous week’s Washington +4 (7 min intervals). I was ready to give up 2/3 of the way through the second interval, but buried myself. Body found new depths of energy reserve when I dug deep, because I found the last 30-40 seconds of that same interval pretty manageable (the pain leveled out), and the remaining 2 intervals were easier than the first 2. Go figure.
But yeah, these suprathreshold intervals make over-unders (including Mary Austin) look easy.
I found the second half of SusPB to feel way harder than the first half. It took me 3-4 weeks into SSB1 (after SusPB) to feel ‘back to normal’ because I didn’t adjust early enough to ensure sufficient recovery from the hard workouts.
This next time through I am prioritizing recovery prior to the Tuesday workout (1-3min V02 intervals) and the Thursday workout (7-9min @105%) and making the threshold workout optional / best-effort. With SSBI, SSBII, and the first half of SusPB I could stack rides on Tues/Wed/Thurs but not for that second half of SusPB. I’m also adding a recovery week to the block and doing 2 weeks on/ 1 recovery.
Just wanted to say a huge thank you to each and every one of you who posted in this thread. You almost certainly saved me from a massive implosion.
I did my Ramp Test coming into SPB Mid Vol fatigued after reading this thread. It was clear to me that the ability to deal with rising fatigue was going to be key and coming into SPB with an FTP gained after a fresh-ish Ramp Test wasn’t going to be helpful.
My FTP from SSB Mid Vol 2 didn’t move and I was happy with that. Felt that it was a good representation of where I was at, with fatigue in the legs.
To-date, this reasoning has paid off. SPB has been challenging, no doubt! I’m not used to 3x20 or 2x30 minute efforts but, as Amber has said many times on the Podcast, I’ve approached them with curiosity.
My training has gone tits up during the past month. I tried coming back to SPB MV but still wasn’t right - my legs were knackered at the end of each week. I decided to completely reset so I’ve just had 8 days off the bike and did a new ramp test this morning (FTP gone down slightly which is not a surprise). Next week I will start again with IM base LV and that will mark the beginning of my plan to get ready for IM Vitoria next July. I think I took on too much trying to jump from a LV base to a MV build. In hindsight it was pretty dumb. But at least I’ve learned something.
It feels that reports on the second half of SPB plan being too hard are quite typical. I have the same experience that after initial FTP boost, workouts became increasingly difficult to complete. As a result my FTP decreased and I had to take time to recover from overtraining symptoms.
My theory is that the plan requires much stronger base than a novice can develop just by following SSB plan. What happened in my case, I probably peaked in the middle of the build and then overcooked myself with intensity. My constant feeling of hunger and sugar cravings, increased body weight and feeling of fatigue probably indicate that I was relying on glycolytic energy production a lot. My fellow rider who had similar ftp but stronger base (defined by higher tested aerobic threshold) managed to complete the SPB plan fully, without reducing intensity and not losing ftp. But even for him it felt borderline unmanageable and did not result in meaningful fitness increase.
SPB is mental - I have only got through Red Lake+8 once without back spins - I either use Wilhelm+1 with 5 mins on 5 mins off @108% or just cut down and do variations of Stromlo (102%) …SPB off the ramp FTP is to tough as I have a ramp FTP of 300W and can’t do 6-8 min reps @323W …and I never go near Elephants. That said ramp always over estimates FTP for me but…I’m a diesel and 50m tt er so if I cut the FTP SS would be to easy - I can knock out 20 - 30 min reps in the 250 - 280 W range for fun!..all of us are different so just adjust down until you reach tough but manageable.
Interesting idea and rings quite true to me. In the end I moved to outdoor rides only as a combination of better weather and lockdown restrictions easing made it possible for me to get out into the fresh air more. On a similar level of TSS per week - albeit all unstructured, no plan - I noticed my weight started to decline. Haven’t performed a ramp test recently but been meaning to do so. I can see on TR power curve a few new records around the 20 min mark so will be interesting.
Have to say I’m really happy with my first winter/spring on TR. I’m looking forward to testing your theory on novices and SPB next Spring!
Not so sure about that but it is a hard plan. In my experience I think that suprathreshold workouts are the main problem when completing the weeks. They were very challenging and honestly I haven’t seen any real benefits from them. I can do 2-2,5h threhold weekly but they were killing my legs. I did not like the plan as it is over the place - VO2 max, O/U, suprathreshold and SS. I have done blocks of Vo2 max/O/U/Long threshold (up to 75 min TiZ) workout and it has given me way more benefit with being a lot less taxed during the process. And it has improved my sustained power by a lot, contrary to SPB.
But this is only my personal opinion and experience.
(Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this really rang true for me - am now getting to the hard 2nd part of SPB MV)
Yes, I also failed miserably at Red Lake. The thing that gets me is the massive jump - I can handle the over/unders (Avalanche Spire, Fang Mountain) … but going from 9 minutes of intervals bracketing 95%/108% to efforts at 108% for 8 minutes (2 days later) … yikes! Trying to decide whether to dial down the intensity (effectively turning Raymond +7 into a threshold workout) or substitute one of the variations that has shorter intervals - but keep the intensity up at 108%+.
Having gone through SPB MV twice in recent times (looking down the barrel of a third go-around shortly…) I can honestly say that it’s the Plan which has drawn the most out of me. Every time I look at the workouts, I shake my head and say ‘not a chance!’
I just promise myself that I’ll try and complete the first two intervals. The others don’t even exist. Then I see how I’m feeling. Can I have a crack at number three? Next thing you know, you’re looking at the final interval and you’re saying ‘I’m not going to give in now…’
Just keep in mind that you can adjust the intensity during the workout. Don’t sell yourself short before you’ve had a proper crack at it. Good luck
for a 243 FTP. Started straight into SSBLV I & II with very strong compliance except for a short illness. FTP went to 280 in January and then 304 at start of SPBLV. On starting SPBLV I found it really difficult to finish any workout and I was lowering intensity by 3, 5, and eventually 8%. This might start half way through the interval sets. I stumbled through to the first rest week, failing a good few workouts, and feeling really discouraged. That rest week turned into a 3 week break where I mostly did a little light running and the odd TR session, not following any plan. I bumped my FTP down to 299.
I have exactly the same issue as you at the moment.
