Hi, I’m hoping I can get some advice or pointers from more experienced big/tall cyclists. I’ve been participating in a fast/competitive group ride this season and have been consistently struggling to finish with the front of the group, and sometimes even hang on at all. I eventually want to try racing and have been using this ride to hone my skills, but am starting to get frustrated.
I’m 200cm, 83kg, FTP about 265, and while I’m far from the strongest rider in the group and have no illusions about dropping the pack or anything like that, I know my fitness is as solid as some of the other guys who consistently are doing better than me, so I think this may be more of a tactics/technique issue.
The issue I have is with my size and how much wind I eat. The course is nearly flat, so the group gets going pretty fast (~30mph) approaching the sprint points, and I often feel like no matter what move I make its the losing one. If I stay in the bunch and try and conserve energy, even getting into a low aero position I’m simply not getting a good draft off the guy in front of me usually and wind up cooked and have no sprint by the end.
If I try and make an early move to pull off the group and diesel ahead, everyone just hops on my wheel and rides my big draft and then I still wind up cooked as I’ve burned all my matches trying to shake people off my wheel and have nothing left at the end.
Obviously more power would help here, and I am training and making improvements, but the reality is the noob gains have run out and a 300 watt FTP is probably at least a year out if not longer.
Any advice from big riders who know how to leverage their size to their advantage?
How long have you been cycling, and what’s an a typical cycling week like for TSS and structure? At 3.2 w/kg I’d argue that there may likely still be some low hanging fruit to get an increase on power.
Can’t help you on the size portion, I’m 175 cm & 72 kg.
I think @Nate_Pearson might disagree with on your tall rating but I remember him discussing what to try tactically in those situations.
I suppose that the biggest tactic (apart from having the largest ftp possible) is to be unpredictable. Whatever tactic you decide to employ, if you always use the same one, someone will learn how to counteract it.
The other thing I remember Nate saying is to start a breakaway sprint from the back of the line, not to try and lead off the front. If you can power from the back you’ll hopefully pass the lead rider with enough of a speed difference to make a good size break. That’s not easy though. But hey, do that a few times and get caught (deliberately) and then maybe the next time you try it, they won’t expect you to make it stick…
I’m 32 currently, been cycling for 3 years, but actually got “into” it when I bought my road bike a year and a half ago, and started riding with structure right around then. I will admit my long term consistency has not been good, so if there are easy gains left on the table that’d be awesome. I started with TR a year and two months ago and my power was 235w. I didn’t ride with power back when I first started three years ago, but I was coming from a baseline of zero cardio and my FTP was probably 150ish if I had to guess.
Right now I’m doing about 400 tss a week. I do the group ride, a vo2 session, a threshold session, and a long z2 weekend ride.
Can still be pretty aero and tall - Ganna are Tarling are both ~194cm and 2 of the fastest TTers in the world right now. If you haven’t already then worth getting help from a fitter and working on being as aero as possible. Stuff like wearing snug fitting kit (or a skinsuit if that’s acceptable in your group) will make a bigger difference for you than others because even if you’ve got a great position you’ll still be catching more wind on your upper body than others.
I would think your best bet long term is getting as many watts as you can and killing smaller riders on the flats. Make sure you’re fueling properly - 83kg is pretty light for your height, if you put on a few kg but gained some watts that would be a good trade. You’ll also be burning more kcals throughout the ride than smaller riders so need to fuel for that.
Tactically the advice above about accelerating from the back to get a decent speed differential as you pass the front is good. You’re always going to struggle to shake a rider in your wheel so need to work on getting away cleanly. Reading the group and timing your move comes with practice, it’s great when you nail it and feel like you have free speed and momentum compared to everybody else. But then staying away once you’ve got the gap is just W/CdA, so need to continue to work on both sides of that equation to make it stick.
How long is this ride and how long of rides are you going on otherwise? When you try to win from a last minute break, how do you go about it? Do the people you are comparing yourself to have a similar power profile to you? How do they win these sprints?
@SacSasquatch if you’ve only gone 235 to 265, I think there’s some easier gains in there. I started in February and have gone from 222 to 262.
I’m a BIG fan of polarized training (80/20 method).
Is your group ride weekly or just occasionally?
I’d suggest a high volume polarized training plan. If you really want to gain, I’d say doing weekly group rides where you’re barely holding on, is too much. Maybe every other or every third week.
Basically do two HIIT sessions/wk and 3-4 EASY sessions. Probably at 140-160 watts, and under 145bpm. One of the easy rides should be a long easy weekend ride.
Its about an hour and a half, with 3 fast sections evenly spaced throughout it. Most of my workouts are at least this long, and I often do a 4+ hour ride on the weekends. I typically try and grab the wheel of a strong rider and ride with them into the front group, and then just hang on for dear life, usually running out of gas right as they launch into the final sprint.
I don’t have anyone’s power curves or anything, but I know several of the guys who usually finish ahead of me, and when its just the two of us riding all out on the flat I’ve dropped them before. They just seem to leverage the group dynamic much better than me and are more efficient, and manage to keep gas in the tank.
The group ride is weekly. Its one of my main social outlets so I’m loath to give it up, though it will be stopping for the season in a month or so as fall rolls in. I know its a lot of fatigue for not a lot of valuable stimulus but it’s where I develop my pack riding skills and find people to talk bikes with.
Also, that power number wasn’t really an accurate picture of my training, I actually hit 265 before in May, but then work got insane and I had to seriously cut down on riding for several months. I dropped down to the 240s before starting up training again and am now back to where I was.
I’ll see about adding in more z2 when I can. I’ve been recently focusing on really hitting good quality vo2 max workouts as they seem to translate the most to what I’m doing in the group rides.
Definitely understand on the social outlet. If anything, it may be worth treating the group ride as one of your high intensity sessions. Like you said - more zone 2 would 100% be your friend.
Hey @SacSasquatch - I can empathise, I recall sitting behind Emma Pooley in a fast bunchie and only getting a draft for my shins - ha ha! As a taller rider, I’ve learnt to get as low and aero as possible when the pace is on, plus learnt how to better position myself in the pack to take whatever draft I can.
The other thing I’d say is that it took me many years to build my endurance tank (I started cycling around 40 without a strong endurance background, probably took 8+ years to get to full fitness). I’d recommend some patience and to keep throwing yourself into these type of group rides - the fitness will come over time.
I’m 6’5"/195 cm so not quite as tall, but the struggle is real!
Do you have an aero road helmet? I love my Specialized Evade. I figure if I’m losing some of the draft up top, might as well try to make my melon more aero!
Also, what are you running for bars? Big road bikes tend to come with 44cm bars which may be costing you watts. I went down to Enve SES Aero Road bars that are 37cm at the hoods/42cm drops and they’re great.
I don’t have an aero road helmet, since they tend to be pricey. I would like one but it’s hard to justify replacing my perfectly fine current one.
I’ve got a one piece carbon fiber cockpit measuring at 44cm. I am broad shouldered so it seems to line up well. I could look at replacing it too, but again, money!
From a fellow tall and skinny dude. There really aren’t any advantages beeing tall in cycling. Usually having a BMI arround the 20 mark means that at least you are narrow, but if you have broad shoulders as well you’re just at a disadvantage. What I would suggest in addtion to the advise you’ve already gotten is to work on your position on the bike. Try to get as low and narrow as possible. Often people focus on getting low forgetting that getting narrow can be just as, and even more, important. Try rolling your wrist inwards, shrugging your shoulders and turtleing (lowering your head).
If your AC joints are as wide as 44cm apart I’ll eat my hat.
Throw that barstem in the bin and get a separate stem and an alloy 40cm bar to start with - you can swap both out again cheaply to find your perfect position - you will need a longer stem to go with narrower bars.
This is very funny. As a short rider, I’ve also learned to get as low and aero as possible plus how to position myself - obviously get behind a bigger rider if possible, but all the rest of the positioning stuff.
You can’t compare your power curve to someone who is 20% lighter than you. It’s like a heavyweight fight against a welterweight, but just the advantage is opposite. The reality is you are going to have to get more efficient or stronger than the guys smaller than you. We all experience this. It’s typical that larger riders have more absolute power due to more muscle mass, but given where you are on your fitness journey, you are still growing into the ride you are participating in and that’s good. However, if you can’t get stronger overnight, you have to be more efficient. Be ruthless with your efficiency throughout the ride, not just during the fast parts. If you are taking a pull, take it a little less hard. If you are in the draft, get as aero as possible by riding in the drops or bending your elbows to get that head lower. Keep your elbows and shoulders as narrow as possible. Try not to hit the brakes ever. Coast when you can and resist the urge to burn matches where you don’t need them.
but I remember him discussing what to try tactically in those situations.