Quick question that I haven’t seen asked/answered here before:
With the newer carbon-plated shoes and big cushy soles, are there downsides to using these for all training? I know they are listed as “race-day” shoes, but why? They feel great for running all the time. I’m wondering if the structure increases risk of some sort of injury. Obviously they are more expensive, but otherwise any downsides that people know of? Thanks!
I think it depends on the person and the shoe.
I know that I like the Soucony Endorphin Pro I have. I would use it on all runs. I have use it on moderate run to break them in and they work well! But I know this is a shoe meant to go fast, and doesnt work well on wet roads.
That said. There are shoes that are aimed to be used at certain speed.
For example, other than the feel, there is probably little to gain on using a 200+ shoe that would last maybe 300 miles on “garbage miles”. It will not help, it will not harm.
The new Reebok Floatride X (same floatride shoe, with CF plate) apparently is not a great shoe for big speed changes, but work super well for steady long distance run. Is apparently a marathon shoe, not a shoe recommended for short very fast run. In the other hand is a shoe that cost $170 and if the normal floatride is any indication, this shoe will last 500+ miles. But this is the goal of the shoe.
Anyway… I think its more about value per mile than anything else.
I have the Endorphin pros and use them just for racing - they give me a mental and physical boost and tell me I’m racing…I wouldn’t train in them - I have Asics 1000s for that. Just like I only ride my disc and 90mm carbon deep rim on my TT bike in a race…plus yes as mentioned at £150+ a pair I’m only using them for racing 
Good points. I did all of my training recently in the New Balance Fuelcell RC Pro v2 (by the way what’s with all the ridiculous names these days? You need a decoder wheel to know what you’re looking at half the time). They actually ended up lasting a lot longer than a “traditional” pair. I think the foams are just higher quality or something.
I’ll plan to use these on my long runs and everything else in a cheaper/traditional shoe?
Kind of ironic - I was just stopping by to ask how long should I break in these fancy Saucony Endorphin Pro’s that I got last fall. My first “speedy” race is this Sunday. Was thinking of wearing them tonight for a 40 min tempo run with a few short intervals. Would that be enough?
Normal everyday shoes are Asics Novablast and Hoka Clifton 7’s
As Joel noted, it really just depends on the person and shoe.
I for one like to use a ‘heavier’ daily trainer for slower (recovery to upper endurance zone) miles, slightly lighter for tempo/threshold miles and then carbon plated shoe for race day. I will however mix in the carbon plated shoes on long runs at lower (ie. faster) endurance zone or runs with race pace efforts. I do this two primary reasons 1) time in the shoe and 2) the added benefits of the carbon plate and higher stack height typically found in these shoes which help limit or mitigate the wear on the legs/knees during these runs.
A lot of runners I know, myself included, have moved away from the idea of having to ‘break’ shoes in before race day. I dont know if it’s the advancement of technology used in shoes today but I’ve had no issues lacing up a new pair of shoes on race day… The only caveat being that I’ve used the same shoe prior to race day; same model shoe.
Not rich enough to speak from experience, but I have heard they can actually benefit training by keeping your legs fresher and allowing for a slightly higher training load.
Though I’m not sure if that’s specifically attributed to the carbon plates or the amount of foam (which you may also find in other models.) Or whether that’s more significant than the kind of surface you’re running on etc.
Aside from that I think it’s mostly cost/wear concerns, but no AFAIK there’s no significant downsides if you’ve got the budget.
I think it’s the foam that make this possible.
Most shoe companies have move away from Eva and now use something similar to the material that is used on the boost. We can thank adidas for taking a chance and changing the running shoe industry.
All these foams do not deteriorate as Eva foams. Plus they don’t need time to get them molded. So now days all shoes are ready to roll from day one.
Granted, i would use a new shoe a few times before a race to make sure the fit is right and that they will not rub the wrong way. Hell there are people who can’t even run on most carbon plated shoes for whatever reason… So test is what you want, not really break in.
What’s funny is that I’m pretty sure his event is right in between at 12k
you racing/running Bloomsday? it is 12KM - if not great guess!
Yup, super excited that it’s back to being live. Looks like we should get some good cool running weather
So. Aqua jogging. Belt or no belt?
Gave it a shot without and while I had no issue keeping myself afloat I wasn’t sure I really had the form down and I think it would make it tough to do more structured sessions. (Can’t swim or put much power down on the bike at the moment, so I’d be happy if I could approximate some more targeted run sessions even if just from an engagement/motivation standpoint.)
Not sure if I’ll improve with experience or if it worth seeking one out? Also this sucks and I hate it.
I think it depends on how deep the water is
deep water use a belt - the belt keep you afloat to focus on the form
shallow water (you can touch the bottom) - just try to jog in place - I suggest wearing shoes from my experience
I don’t think i’m ready to get on the carbon plate band wagon yet.
Meaning, i need to put in more time & miles before making it worth my while. I’m glad Altra came out with one… so i’ll have a zero-drop option but i don’t know that i’d be able to summon its full potential at my level.
“Casual” marathon yesterday. Here’s the report
Goals:
A1: Finish in/under 3:10 - Nope
A2: Don’t destroy myself and compromise next couple weeks - Maybe???
2: PR - Check
3: Verify Alphaflys will work over a marathon - Big Ole Check
Training:
A 2 month marathon build is something very new to me. Coming off XC ski season I had a TON of aerobic fitness and did pretty minimal running, so this was bound to be interesting. Venturing into new territory. I ended up logging around 23 hours of running in those two months with 293km while also building up my swimming and biking because this is/was a pretty low priority race. Longest run was 27km and I did my long runs a bit faster than marathon pace. Unconventional timeframe and I guess unconventional training. Anyways I felt really confident from them if for no other reason than I was knocking out my HM splits in around 1:31-1:32 and it really wasn’t feeling all that tough. (Again, I’m coming into this with a TON of aerobic fitness.)
Pre-Race:
For a Sunday race, I went to a concert on Wednesday. In hindsight jumping up and down on a concrete floor, may have not been the best idea. Friday I did a “Rage Room” with my family and smashed up a bunch of furniture and old office equipment bats, crowbars, and lead pipes. Again in hindsight, not the best idea. My motel was around 3km from the packet pickup/start line, and instead of grabbing an Uber because I didn’t have a car with me, I decided to walk. It was great from a mental perspective but again probably a bit too much wear in the legs. Hindsight is a bitch. So between Saturday afternoon and Sunday I logged around 9km walking. (Why am I so dumb!!!) Had dinner with the Outpace team at a wonderful Italian restaurant, and got back to the motel pretty early. I was in bed by 8:30 after some yoga but noticed that my hips were a little tighter than normal. Oh well, let’s see how it goes race morning.
I tossed and turned for a couple hours before finally getting some shuteye as is pretty typical before a race. Good thing I did a decent job getting sleep earlier in the week, concert night excepted. Woke up and felt like crap, but after I got moving things felt alright. packed up my things into my transition backpack, checked out of the motel at 5-something in the morning and began my 3km walk. Took off my warm clothes at the start, checked my bag, and went with a 10min warmup run with Mark and Nick from Outpace who were also doing the full. We got done 5min before the race start and because it was a smaller race could easily get to the front. Nick was shooting for sub-3 and Mark was going for 3:25 +/- 10min so we were pretty close in the starting pen.
Weather was around 50F with drizzle. No significant wind.
The Race:
First kilometer was great! I went out at a 4:25 pace which wasn’t too fast. Put me in at a 3:06 pace. I felt good. Had a small group around me that was nice and steady. Then 2nd kilometer I noticed my shoe was untied. Shit! I tied it back, double looped it, then doubled the other. Mark came up behind me and gave me a well deserved “Come on Mike!” heckle. So after a nice smart first kilometer I went full on moron for my second. I burnt a match or two to catch up with the group I had decided I liked. 2km later I caught back up with them and I didn’t feel like I expended much energy but it’s the start of a marathon. It should feel easy. Anyways I kept pace with them for the next 15km or so until the race turned onto a dirt path. With all the rain the previous day and drizzle during the race, it had turned to mud. running through that was pretty challenging and I finally did something smart. I ran to feel instead of trying to keep up with anybody or keep a certain pace. I ended up giving up 10s or so per kilometer but was also doing quite a bit of lateral movement from side to side to find the more solid running lines, which sometimes meant running in grass or on uneven terrain. This went on for around 4km and if I had to guess where my poor choices from the previous week met the realities of the race.
The dirt road was and out and back, so I got to see Nick and Mark, both looking strong. That was cool to see, as well as the leader who was cruising like a beast. When I finally got back onto pavement and was looking forward to some nice easy terrain to get back on track, I was smacked with one of the 3 hills the course serves up. This one had a good 25m of elevation gain and really sapped my spirits. I tried to shift down to a lower gear and not spend too much energy going up, but alas that wasn’t the issue: my legs and in particular my hips were unhappy. Once I got to the top of the hill, I sliced off a good 15s/km from my pace, bringing me more into a 4:35/km kind of pace but even that just plain hurt. The worst part was when that uphill went back down and everything just began to suck. At the same time some pebbles from the dirt road had worked their way through the loose knitting of the Alphaflys and now I had stones in my shoes. And I had to pee because I was drinking too much for the cool weather. Yup, found my dark place.
Eventually I spied a porta-potty, took care of the excess water. Took care of the pebbles. Had my slowest kilometer of the race. But at least I was still making progress. A group of students had setup a cheer spot in the middle of nowhere and perked me up a bit. One of them had a football so I pointed at him. He threw it at me, I caught it, and tossed it back (poorly) but got a good roar from them. For around 30 seconds my legs didn’t hurt. I settled back in and embraced the pain. I ran pretty steady, with any kind of elevation (up or down) slowing me down a bit from the legs, but I think I had made it through the worst of it. Eventually the route followed a nice paved section next to a railroad track so it was super flat and straight. Here I really got back into the groove and I was feeling quite upbeat. I even passed a couple people that had blown up ahead of me.
Around 30km in the full course merged with the half course and based on the time staggers, I was suddenly running with the 2:30 HM pace group on a narrow path. My nice solo run was suddenly jam packed with traffic I needed to weave around. It was nice to be blowing past people. Nothing does more for your confidence than passing folks. But it pretty quickly took a toll on my legs. I made a deal with myself to walk the aid stations so got a good 15s rest every 2km or so, but starting back up was so hard. Still I pushed on as much as I could, but by the time I hit the 35km mark, my legs were officially shot. My HR dipped into the mid Zone2 range and my pace hovered around 5:00/km. I was still passing half people and keeping up or rarely passing other full runners, but it hurt. Still, I wasn’t going to let myself walk outside of an aid station no matter how much I wanted to. My PR of 3:14 looks to be just a bit out of reach at my current pace. Maybe I can pick it up at the end and salvage the PR? Maybe?
40.5km in I hear somebody shout from behind me “Come on Mike!” and it’s Mark. Mark is flying. Competitive adrenaline and “almost finished” adrenaline kicks in and I catch up to him. I run alongside him for a bit and we chat about how he’s on an absolute flier and going to crush his PR. I latch on and say “Tow me to the finish line.” I don’t care about the pain now and am just running. Again, aerobically I’m great and have energy. It’s just a matter of the legs and seeing Mark next to me is helping me ignore that. But then the road turned up as we approached the last bridge and I couldn’t anymore. I tell Mark to go get it and I’ll see him at the finish line. He sped away from me but I kept pretty close contact. Once off the bridge it was a flat straight run to the finishing arch. With nobody to weave around, no turns, and no elevation changes I was able to find just enough in me to power through to the finish line and crossed in 3:13:47. 9 seconds behind Mark.
Post Race:
Pain. Lots of pain. Never have I been that unable to do anything that quickly after a race. It felt like somebody had poured a gallon of superglue into each of my legs, getting all over my muscles and into my joints. BUT, my feet felt great still. Normally a marathon makes your feet feel like there were battered by a regiment of hammers, but today they felt just fine. Alphaflys for the win! Mark and I had a drink and some food at a nearby restaurant with some other folks from the Outpace team. Nick managed to go 2:58 and nailed his goal too. The others had done the half and had a mostly positive experience as well. It was a good day for everybody except my legs, but I didn’t care. I was in celebration mood. Mark was also my ride back so we had a lot of fun chatting in the car about the race and what we have coming up. He kept saying how he felt bad passing me knowing it meant I didn’t get my 3:10 goal but I really didn’t care all that much. 3:13 was close enough for me on the time part and any disappointment I had was more than compensated for by seeing him smash his own PR by 15min.
At home I ate some Oreos and pizza with my feet in the air pressure boots watching basketball. Didn’t move too much but enough to keep breaking up that superglue in my legs.
Lessons Learned:
I’m not 20 anymore. I can’t just go and run a marathon on expedited training and not pay a hefty price.
I’m also not 20 anymore and can’t subject my legs to a bunch of unnecessary pounding and wear leading up to a race. It won’t turn out well.
I’m really aerobically fit. I’ve never finished a marathon with that much left in the tank. Battered legs aside, that felt easy.
80-85g of carbs per hour in Gu/gatorade is no issue for me during a marathon. Caffeine of 60mg/hr is also no issue.
If it’s cold, drink less or you’ll have to pee.
Alphafys are amazing and thankfully they work with my feet. Bodyglide on the feet, then socks, then shoes = winning combo.
If I don’t have speed laces in my shoes, be sure to double knot BEFORE the race starts
Bodyglide can also be put around the wasteband of your shorts. Otherwise you run the risk of some chafing you might not notice during the race but will later on in the day.
I’ve done it with run blocks in the past and it’s worked out well. I think a lot of it comes down to being consistent and not overreaching. Here is my last 11 weeks. Just continue to slowly build up, in rating by 5-10% a week while dropping back mileage about every 5th or 6th week.
Have worked up to 50+ miles a weeks in so far. I’ve only done 3 ‘fast’ runs/workouts so far this year. Did a track 10k at 6 min pace about five weeks back then pushed my daughter in a stroller for an 8k a week ago at 6:20 pace. Everything else has been 7:30 to 8:30 paces - basically whatever works they day to feel easy and keep it in zone 2. In general my zone 2 has gotten faster since the beginning of the year.
Did my first running race in about 3 years yesterday. 12k on a rolling-ish, challenging to pace course. Was happy with how well the BarryP/zone 2 prepared me
Solid race!
Man, that really gives me hope…im only at the 30km per week level but it’s definitely manageable when life doesnt get in the way 
At least i know that i can just stay on that path until my HM in Sept/Oct and probably see decent results.
#teambarryp
Damn that is freaking fast - great race! You’re a badass!
my new race shoes must be defective - they didn’t get me down in the sub 6 range 
#1 goal was to not injury myself - I believe I succeeded. I followed Barry P from Nov 1 - Jan 31st this year to create some base and to be more durable after several years of injuries. Feb I switched to a more traditional Tri plan. This isn’t my PR, but a good decent race for me, and I don’t call this course “roling-ish” - two steep descents (quad killers), two steep climbs (quad killers) and 1 rolling climb in the middle and the rest is relatively flat.
