@TrainerRoad Did training plans evolve because of data insights?

[Bestevaer]

@coachchad in particular. Did the TrainerRoad training plans evolve because of the insights you got from all the TrainerRoad data?

Where there big changes? Or just some slight alterations? Or nine at all?

[jdman]

I know for a fact they check the compliance rate to check workouts are being completed to give the intended benefits. I know workouts like Mary Austin and some of the superthreshold/VO2 workouts were toned down because so few were completing them!

[willball12]

I can’t find the thread now but a while back (before plan builder) they made some changes to the content and order of some of the plans based on compliance info.

Probably also based on the follow-up rides to a particularly hard workout.

[UKCarl]

I tink they also changed some of the 3-4hr weekend rides to shorter sweetspot due to lack of complaince

[dprimm]

I bet @mcneese.chad has the link to the discussions where the training plans were updated and TR explained that they were looking at the compliance and other data. Plus, Chad has mentioned at various times how his views on different things have changed as science (and TR data I am sure) have learned new things.

[Bestevaer]

But that’s just looking into how many people complete workouts and town them down. It did not change the methodology of the plans

@UKCarl

I tink they also changed some of the 3-4hr weekend rides to shorter sweetspot due to lack of complaince

The same answer to @jdman also applies to this.

@dprimm

I bet @mcneese.chad has the link to the discussions where the training plans were updated and TR explained that they were looking at the compliance and other data. Plus, Chad has mentioned at various times how his views on different things have changed as science (and TR data I am sure) have learned new things.

I know the plans had been adjusted about a year ago. But was that based on data gathered from TrainerRoad? Or gut feeling

[ellotheth]

@Bestevaer

But was that based on data gathered from TrainerRoad? Or gut feeling

It was based on data. TR doesn’t need to operate on gut feeling.

Our Training Plans are Improving

For the foreseeable future, we’re using data to make incremental improvements to our training plans. We’ve got the data! We’ve got year and years of high quality, accurate data on how our users’ complete TrainerRoad workouts. We know their age, their watt/kg, how often they’re training, their history and where they are in a plan. I’m talking about millions and millions of workouts. We’ve leveraged some of this data and built an internal system to categorize workouts in the following categor…

Sweet Spot Base II - Low & Mid Volume Changes

With the benefit of more data and better information on which workouts have a stronger likelihood of completion and better adherence, SSB II has been re-fixed and the swapped VO2max workouts (Tuesdays in weeks 2-5) go into effect today. I feel strongly that this small set of changes will strike the proper balance between difficult and doable and keep y’all challenged, motivated, and getting faster. There’s more info about why we’re doing this here: Our Training Plans are Improving

Plan Improvements: Short, General, and Sustained Build!

Last week we mentioned that we’re using data from millions of rides to help improve our training plans. We’ve already updated Sweet Spot Base I/II Mid and Low Volumes . Today we’re making changes to our build plans. How do I update a plan on the calendar to reflect these changes? There are two types of changes: In place changes and workout changes. You don’t have to do anything for in place workout changes, they are automatically reflected on your calendar. If you see something like this, J…

[willball12]

@Bestevaer

I know the plans had been adjusted about a year ago. But was that based on data gathered from TrainerRoad? Or gut feeling

TR (and other platforms) have built up huge datasets which eclipse even the largest sports science trials. They often talk about using that to inform changes that are made.

They’ve also alluded to algorithmic/ML/AI style approaches to adapting training plans based on the information they collect.

[Nate_Pearson]

They’ve been incremental improvements but we’re working on massive leaps.

[enki42]

The way lots of these changes come from analyzing the data of previous workouts is why I kind of wish TrainerRoad would add support for recording muscle oxygen data.(the fit file format already had that as a standard set of data points) Maybe not do anything with it now but after you build up a large amount of data it might help point to things that should change.

I know moxy, bsx, and humon aren’t that popular but have a feeling there are enough who do to give data.

[enki42]

Would also be interesting to know if the app looks at hrv data during a workout. For example it seems like it can be used to tell when someone passes certain thresholds like in:. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.117.006612

Granted that means the app would need a database of heart rate straps that provide useful hrv data. (The identification info that ant and ble devices give that allow the app to give the name of the device) Not all heart rate straps give valid data like most optical sensors

[wfenwick]

Do you know if there are any apps/systems that record that HRV in the .fit file during workouts whether or not they use it? For example I believe the Wahoo and Garmin chest straps can record HRV, if you have a Garmin device marked to record HRV, will it record and store that info during the entire workout? I would switch back to one of those (currently using an armband for convenience) and record/store that file just to have the data in case I ever see a use case for it if that’s possible.

[enki42]

There are two parts to this, the sensor and the recording device. All ant+ heart rate straps broadcast beat by beat timings but the ble that data field is optional and not required to be filled in. There is also the question of if the data is real beat by beat timings. Most chest straps will be the real value while optical sensors generally don’t give the real timing.

Then there is the recording side of things. Fit files do support this data but most devices don’t record it by default.

Some devices do it this way:

Tracking HRV with Garmin Watches

[enki42]

The more current edge devices generally have a menu option like this to turn it on:
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge530/EN-US/GUID-5BF2156B-9740-47F1-A564-FA22D55FDEB1.html

Before they added the menu I think they all used the fit file upload method to turn on the function

[enki42]

Here are some devices that have been tested to see if they provide useful hrv data:

Heart Variability Monitors and Elite HRV Compatible Monitors

This shows what happens when you use a device with poor quality beat by beat data:

Hardware for HRV: what sensor should you use?

[ABG]

What is the definition of a massive leap?
We talking wireless shifting or butyl to latex tubes?

[Nate_Pearson]

We’ll just have to wait to find out!

[RobertSims]

Is this ‘Thing 1’