I think TR is accurate as it’s based on my indoor rides while both Training Peaks and Garmin are going off my best 20 min outdoor power.
I feel pretty confident I couldn’t hold 305w for 20 min, seated indoors. But it’s pretty interesting nevertheless.
I wonder if TR factors best 20 min power on outdoor rides for FTP detection.
No it doesn’t use a best 20 minutes. It factors in a lot more. And also remember they (TR) are trying to get the best training measure for doing their plans, not getting the number closest to a lab test or anyone else’s test.
https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/ftp-testing-is-a-thing-of-the-past-introducing-ai-ftp-detection/
I never said “use” I said I wonder if it “factored”.
I think it’s safe to assume every bit kid power data is factored.
The question and secret is “how” it’s factored into their algorithm. Doubtful it’s 95% of your 20 minute power but doing sustained bouts of power is probably factored in somehow.
All the models that use “best” times for 5,20 or even an hour are flawed if you don’t do all out efforts.
My AiFTP was 301 last time I did it (I use 300 based off training and TTE work at threshold, I just do the AiFTP when curious) but intervals (which is an amazing product) has me at 283 eFTP. Because I haven’t done any max efforts in a while. Even doing 75 minutes uninterrupted at 90% doesn’t change their modeling.
So AiFTP is using some other secret sauce
Share your Peak Power:bike chart for 90 days in trainingpeaks. would be a good chart to look at and give you an idea
I need to figure out how to do that but training peaks sent me a notification updating my FTP from 268 to 290. Again I’m not doubting TR AiFTP and it’ll be another 3 weeks before a detection is done again. I just found it interesting. Also if I manually set my TR FTP at 290 there’s no way I’d be able to complete the workout. Especially seated.
Did you end up getting your power meter and trainer measurements close together?
Yes and no. I solely use my pedals for power now. I did purchase a right power pedal. And interestingly my power balance outside is 49/51. Inside its 46/54. No idea why.
Intervals uses efforts from 5-30 min by default
TrainingPeaks also does not use your best 20 minute power. It will give you 20 min peak performances, but won’t change or give a threshold notification unless you have 20 min power at 95%.
Also, TrainingPeaks will use any uploaded workouts into your calendar: inside and out.
Not sure what this means exactly but I did a 20 min hill climb yesterday and TP immediately updated my FTP.
This makes sense as Intervals updated my eFTP to 291.
FTP’s as of this moment are;
(Updated based on yesterday’s effort)
Garmin: 289
Training Peaks: 290
Intervals.icu: 291
(Last updated 2 weeks ago)
TrainerRoad: 268
Curious to see what TR has me at in two weeks.
Apologies for any confusion. Per TrainingPeaks: * Power Threshold - Bike or Mountain Bike: We suggest a threshold increase if your 95% of your Average Peak 20 Min Power is greater than your currently set threshold.
Which Garmin do you have? And if a x30 or x40 model is it completely setup? FWIW I’ve got a Garmin 530, have it configured correctly, and it offers updates at least several times a month (usually more). These models use machine learning of power, HR, and HRV provided you have a compatible HRM.
TrainingPeaks is pretty simple. TP won’t update if your FTP is declining. As posted above it looks at 95% of 20-min power, and if it is greater than current FTP than you get a notice.
You can inspect your power curve and get a good idea what WKO and Strava will tell you, which in my experience is similar to what I get from Intervals.
Garmin 830. Over the last 18 months it’s only suggested a couple of FTP updates. Maybe 3 times. And twice during races where I’ve put in a max effort on a climb.
This makes sense as I did 305w for 20 on a climb yesterday and TP updated FTP to 290. But again, there’s no way I’m doing those numbers on the trainer. Not yet at least.
If you want to test it for shits and giggles, create a workout with a 35min block at FTP, set your FTP to the garmin/TP # and try it out.
You have to REALLY skew outside the norm to have a TTE that is less than 30min, so a 35min test is perfect for calibrating FTP.
If your FTP is closer to 270 than 290 you will know in the first 10-12min if the wheels are going to come off. If you blow past 20min and start falling apart near 30 the higher number is likely correct.
For me, my FTP is a metric to determine my workout intensity. It really doesn’t mean anything beyond that. IMO I now have 3 FTP’s. One I can hold on the trainer. One I can hold seated, and one I can hold with a mixture of sitting and standing.
My TR FTP is still set to 268 and the intensity of my workouts right now feel just about right. Outdoors I can hold a little more power but I’ve still kept my zones in the old range. For example, Z2 feels good between 180-200w (based off 268 FTP). I’m not planning on doing my outdoor Z2 rides in the 200-220w range. At least not for now.
Apologies in advance.
FTP and similar concepts (critical power, mlss) are about a small range of power that separates stable physiology from unstable physiology.
Unstable physiology is easy to feel and watch on your bike computer - increase in breathing from heavy rhythmic to ragged, and HR that keeps increasing.
If you can’t feel/see it you aren’t paying attention.
People tend to get wrapped up in debating the duration part - how long you can ride at it - and forget that it’s a narrow range of power that serves as a boundary between stable and unstable physiology.
Last week I listened to Cory Lockwood talk about setting the new USA 40km ITT record on Empirical Cycling podcast. At one point he does a good job of describing what it feels like to teeter back and forth across that boundary.
FTP really is that simple.