What makes the perfect XC race bike? Help me decide on what to buy/build

Let’s talk about XC bikes!

I’m looking at what the market currently has to offer and there, seems like there’s a clear line developing between traditional race bikes and more trail oriented “fun” bikes. “Down Country” Ugh.

I’m not exactly sure how to interest geometry charts on FS bikes, so I’m a little unsure what I should be looking for given what I’m after.

My XC race season ended on Sunday (First place for my age group in the state YAY!) And I’m looking to the future for something that might climb a little faster than what I have, without really sacrificing the capability to descend. Our XC trails in the PNW get pretty rowdy. Drops, roots, rock gardens.

Backstory: In 2021, I built up a short travel stumpjumper sworks and have used that as my race bike for two seasons. It’s pretty darn light at 24-25 lbs, has a Fox 34 SC with 120mm on it and a 115ish rear travel. It descends as fast as I ask it to and I never really feel underbiked on it.

I would really like a second bottle cage, and something that really shines on the climbs. Is there something out there that really stands out, or is everything pretty capable? Would there be much difference than what I’m on now?

EDIT: Realized I screwed up the geo picture, fixed now.
Here’s my bike’s current geo Size M:

Having just replaced my old spark RC 100/100 with a Epic 8 120/120, I’d argue that the mainstream XC bikes have made the line much more blurry. Bikes like the Trek Supercaliber and Specialized World cup (and anything hard tail) still fall cleanly into XC duty, but many of the other FS XC bikes have basically become yesterday’s down country category and are pretty decent trail bikes.

It sounds like you’ve sort of built a modern XC/downcountry bike with your SJ frame. I’m not sure if you use lockouts or how the pedaling dynamics are on that SJ with that travel, but I’d bet most of the newer XC bikes are going to be a bit more efficient pedaling when not locked out. Can’t speak for handling/geometry, but probably some differences there also. I wouldn’t expect a big weight drop on a new XC bike from your current bike weight (assuming that’s with pedals, cages, etc.). My new epic is about 1lb heavier than my old spark RC with similar build. As far as I can tell, XC bikes have gotten heavier as the travel has increased. I’m not even going to speculate on whether you’d see a big different compared to what you have now. A second bottle cage is nice and climbing/pedaling efficiency might be better, but I’d try to get a proper test ride in and see what you think.

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All really good info. Thanks!

I have a 2023 Scott Spark 120/120 that I built up that weighs 23 lbs race ready (pedals, cages, computer mount, power meter and 2.35 tires). I love the extra travel and the second bottle cage.

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I’ve spent far too much time in the last year comparing XC geometry and playing around with my own setup, and I’m starting to come to a few conclusions as to what works for me. :sweat_smile:

I’ve decided that for fast XC riding and racing, I really prefer to ride with only as much suspension as I really need for the given terrain. Having more suspension/bike than you need will likely slow you down and can actually take some of the excitement out of riding.

In my opinion, having more suspension travel is only better if you’re riding more serious features, and taking bigger hits out on the trail. If you look at modern XC courses up close, the stuff they’re riding is actually pretty serious. They make it look smooth and easy on TV, but those features are tough! If you’re riding trails like that, a bike with 120mm of travel front and rear is probably a good idea. If the terrain you’re riding is quite a bit more mellow (flow with some rocks/roots) then you might not need so much bike.

Ultimately, it does depend on the terrain you’re riding and your skill level. Highly skilled athletes can ride the rough stuff with very little travel, but for most of us that would probably be a bit scary and also hard on our bodies.

Bikes that shine on climbs are typically stiffer which makes them less forgiving on the descent. A hardtail is probably going to be the quickest on smoother climbs, but if things get rough, a little suspension can help you keep the power down. This is where some of the “World Cup” style bikes start to come into play (Trek Supercaliber, Specialized Epic WC, the upcoming BH that was seen in Paris this week).

In my opinion, these are great options for those courses that are a little more tame or those who are really skilled and can handle a bike really well in tougher conditions. I’m hoping that before long, some of these can be made with standard shocks (I think they’re all proprietary at this point ?) which will make long-term serviceability a bit easier down the road. These all fit two big bottles in the main triangle though and can make great long-haul bikes and solid do-it-all all rigs. I’d say for a lot of people they would double as gravel/adventure bikes really well too!

Next up you’ve got your “full suspension pure race bikes” such as the Canyon Lux, Pinarello XC, Cervelo ZFS-5, Cannondale Scalpel, Santa Cruz Blur XC, etc.) These are typically around 100mm travel front and rear. These bikes are really solid for people who want a really fast, light, and responsive bike that’s also pretty capable on most XC terrain. You’re not giving up much in weight, but you’re gaining quite a bit of traction and support. The geometry is still designed to be really quick handling, but the extra few mm of rear travel helps to smooth things out. With standard shocks, these are going to be a bit easier to service and find parts for down the road as well. These can be great all-arounder MTBs in the right places!

Finally, you’ve got your more “modern” XC bikes or “down-country” bikes which start to blur the line between XC and lightweight, short-travel trail bikes. These are usually 120mm of travel front and rear and also sport the most capable geometry as well. Their HTAs are pretty slack and definitely don’t handle as sharply as the other bikes, but are really capable on the descents. If you’re riding a lot of really rough terrain, aren’t as confident on the trails you’re riding, or spend a lot of time in the saddle, these bikes are great choices. A lot of marathon racers use these types of bikes as they’re simply more capable and forgiving over the long haul, and many XCO racers are opting for them on the rowdier World Cup courses as they make the technical sections more manageable and allow for more recovery on the descents. These would be your Specialized Epic 8s, Scott Sparks, Canyon Lux Trails, Santa Cruz Blur TRs, Allied BC40s, etc.

Again, any and all of these bikes are incredible, but the right one for you really depends on:

  1. The terrain you’re going to be riding.
  2. Your bike handling skills.
  3. Your priorities in terms of climbing vs. descending, efficiency vs. comfort, etc.

Since you already have a pretty capable trail bike that looks to fall into more of the down-country category, maybe you should pick something up that’s a bit more responsive. :man_shrugging:

Another thing to consider is that many of the bikes today are rated for multiple different suspension travel options which could make one bike able to do most of what you need. Santa Cruz does a good job showing what their Blur looks like in terms of geometry with two different travel options (XC vs. TR) which is really handy. Even having a second fork to swap in could make a big difference in terms of versatility!

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Really nice summary with lots to look into. Comparing geometry charts is a little confusing to me as changing one aspect seems to affect others so I never know how it will really feel at the end of the day. Short/Long travel is obvious as a differentiator, but for most tech sections, I feel about as confident on my SJ as I do on my 180mm Canyon Torque, so it’s not even that cut and dry.

Out of curiosity, what did you go with?

I’m currently riding a semi-custom steel hardtail. I’ve got a 110mm fork on it and the geo is something like this… (by the way, I’m around 179cm tall)

460mm Reach
68.5° HTA
74° STA
64mm BB Drop

It works really well for what I have to ride around here. I’m usually linking up several different trailheads with gravel roads, snowmobile trails, and paved bike paths. This works well for me as a do-it-all-all-bike at the moment.

If I was going to buy a new MTB, I’d probably consider something like a Trek Supercaliber as I think a liiiitttle more cush in the back would really help out when seated pedaling through some of the rougher roads I tend to ride. A 100mm bike like the Santa Cruz Blur XC would be a good option for me too. I like the use of a standard shock in the Blur, the threaded BB, the lack of proprietary parts, and the adjustability through different-length suspension components.

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So based on a lot of the reviews have seen the new 24 Scalpel suggested as the most DC, most forgiving, etc of the current XC bikes.
Looking at the geo compared to the Epic 8, I’m not sure why though, the Epic 8 is slacker in head tube angle but the Scalpel has differences in trail, front centre and seat tube angle. I find I struggle with the more difficult man-made features that are becoming part of XC racing and also use my XC bike as a trial bike (its my only MTB) so feel like I would benefit from something that has more travel and will track better through rock gardens/rooty sections, absorb cased drops/jumps and descents better, while still being faster than a trail bike in flowy single track and doubletrack.

Not sure if this will work but here is the comparison of the Epic 8 and 24 Scalpel Geo, my current bike is a 21 Revolver FS100 so expect any of the modern 120mm travel bikes would offer a gain with slacker geo and more travel.

Compare: 2024 Cannondale Bikes Scalpel 4 Small vs 2024 Specialized Epic 8 (low) Base S - Bike Insights,

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They look pretty similar. You have the wrong STA put in for the Scalpel though. You’ve entered in the actual angle and what you want is the effective angle which is 75.5°.

The Epic 8 looks a little bit more capable, but not a ton. I’d look at other features of the bike if you’re between those two such as price, frame spec, build, etc.

Are you going to replace your current bike or add to the stable? Must‘ve missed that.

I don’t have much to add to what others already said but if you’re not selling your SJ I‘d consider a light wheelset with some RaceKings or Thunderburts. That will change the feel of the bike more than half a degree here or there.

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I’m going to keep the SJ. I have the long travel yoke for it as well so figured I could swap back and forth.

The new bike will be for training and racing XC marathon and XCO.

Currently running Race Kings in 2.25. I do have Roval Terra wheels, which aren’t exactly boat anchors, but I know there’s quite a bit of weight I could shed with a new lighter weight set.

I appreciate the info and thoughts, definitely helps to hear what others are thinking and considering. That Scalpel is interesting!

That chart doesn’t look right. The effective seattube angle of the scalpel is 75.5 according to their website. No XC bike has a seat tube that slack like its drawn in the geo chart.

I’d say going from your SJ to a current gen XC bike is a sidegrade at best. I love my Epic 8 and would buy it again in a heartbeat. But not if I had a bike that is essentially the same. Buy the Epic 8 frameset and sell your s-works SJ if you want two boddle cages

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Fair point RE: the sidegrade. I’m curious about maybe going up in reach to stretch out a bit more. I’m 178cm or like 5’10”. Wondering if maybe being able to stretch out a bit could be a benefit. I’m noticing these XC bikes are quite a bit lower stack and longer reach that my frame.

That data was just what the site had, going by the reviews by MTB yum yum on youtube and Mo Awesome’s group comparison the Scalpel is a lot better in technical terrain and more forgiving than the Epic 8, the Pivot is better than the Epic 8 in this regard and MTB yum yum suggests the Scalpel is even better than the Pivot.

My concern with the Scalpel is no lockout, really like the idea of the 3 position suspension of the Epic 8 but probably lose more time in tough technical features than I would from not having a lockout for the gravel sections.

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Did you mention where you intended to race?

I agree with the above statement on running just enough suspension for where you intend to ride and race, for me that’s about 110 front and back. I’ve ridden 100 front and back, and that too works.

I like the feel of a short travel bike where I live and have tried riding longer travel and just don’t enjoy them.

I’d like to try the new Scalpel and even the SuperCaliber.

Hump

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I race in the PNW. XCO and Marathon type events.
Courses can range from fairly flat and super fast to extremely technical blue and blue/black climbs/descents. Usually with lots of small 2-3ft drops, lots of chunky rock gardens and roots are a given here in the woods. I definitely use the travel of my current set up. Grades for the climbs can be steep and the climbs themselves pretty long affairs. I’d say the average race is 20 odd miles with 3-4k feet of climbing. I’m a decent bike handler and good at descending these trails with my current bike, so I don’t feel like I need MORE travel at all. If anything, I guess I’m trying to decide if I could be as comfortable with less travel on the dh while making some gains on the up :slight_smile: I obviously haven’t tried a 120mm bike though so maybe I’m way off base.

Edit to add: I should note that some of my training rides can be upwards of 5-6 hours climbing fire roads and blasting down single track. I’d prefer not to get overly fatigued on those long rides, but I’m fine enough on my gravel bike for 7-8 hours with NO suspension so I feel like anything mtb related should be pretty ok.

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Rocky Mtn Element!!

I think that’s how I’d go, if I were out there.
On the East Coast, our trials are tighter, and roots and rocks.
That being said, I’ve ridden a 100/100 Mach4SL and even larger and didn’t feel like I needed more than the Mach4SL.

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@eddiegrinwald summed it up perfectly so nothing to add there. Only dropped in to say that I settled in the epic evo (“7”) & Santa Cruz Blur TR. Originally got the Blur XC (and later the Evo on the close out sale. I prefer the stability of the slacker head tube angle and 120 travel and swapped the fork on the Blur to the Sid Ultimate.

You mention you are in the PNW and a few weeks ago took the Evo to Post Canyon. Granted I didn’t do any of the crazy jumps on x-chorus or A-line but it handled trails like Grand Prix, Mitchell’s ridge, 3 blind mice & bad motor scooter no problem. (I do feel the need to upgrade to 4 piston brakes though).

I would be interested in trying the supercaliber for more tame xc trails but hard to justify another bike when the Evo and Blur are so good!

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I’m ~179cm tall and I’ve found that ~540mm reach (including stem length (I call this reach+)) works well for me.

Depending on the type of riding I’m doing and saddle position it could be anywhere from 530-550 though.

I’ve tried a lot of different setups and there is definitely a sweet spot. even 10mm too long and it tends to get uncomfortable pretty quickly. For me, an easy visual clue of the right length reach is once I have my saddle height and fore/aft set up I’ll use a big mirror and adjust my reach until my upper arm is perfectly perpendicular to the ground when pedaling in an aggressive position with my elbows bent. If my elbow is in front of my shoulder, I know my reach is too long.

Additionally, when pedaling with your arms relaxed or straight, I feel that your arm-to-torso angle should be 90° max. Some can get away with a bit more on road/TT bikes, but you don’t have much supporting your upper body other than your hands on a MTB, whereas on road/TT bikes you’ve got the “reach” section of your bars & hoods and aero extensions to lean on, so I’ve found 90° to be pretty much the max for me. :man_shrugging:

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