Hmm. Ok so perhaps now might be a good time. For reference…I’ve worked up from 10 minute intervals to 30 minutes, while bumping power 20 watts, with heart rate actually being lower now during training than when I started.
Yea. The other consideration is that my training will change naturally over the next month or two, with higher volume as the weather gets better, and some intensity from group rides.
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personally, if I were working with an athlete, I’d probably get them to do more than 30min intervals for sweet spot before moving on to other work, ideally even something like 1x90
Oh yikes haha!
Yea I havent considered going that long yet. This years experience has made me realize how wildly off my ftp was with TR. 90 minutes at SS does not now strike me as unattainable.
I did 2 x 30 this weekend. I’m sire I could handle 1 x 40…maybe 1 x 60 if i really pushed myself. 90 I’m pretty sure I need to work up to though haha.
The first races I care about are intelligentsia in July…maybe I’ll re-evaluate in late march or april…from what I’ve seen here that should leave enough time to have an impact on mid july fitness.
how many 30min intervals are you doing in a row?
edit: it appears i am blind and cant read
you can def keep building, and it doesn’t have to be all in one go, you could go 2x35, 4x20, 3x30, 2x40, etc. adding time to either total time in zone or individual efforts (or both) and before too long you’ll be doing 90min effort easily
Personally I schedule my vo2 blocks after an extensive SST block. I will be finishing my current one soon (worked up from 4x10 to 3x30 and now 1x90) recover and then start up some vo2 work.
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Hey one question regarding the extending sweet spot times - are you simultaneously raising power as well as you feel fitter?
not necessarily, subthreshold and threshold work don’t always lead to increased ftp, so it’s better to keep things roughly the same and then test threshold tte (see kolie moore test thread). this type of work is more to work on the long steady engine. that’s not to say you can’t use rpe to stray from the target a bit, but a trap you can fall into is increasing that target so much that you can’t then do the longer durations
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I don’t until I test my ftp and know that it is higher however if someone is new or coming back into the sport I could see raising power if their fitness is rapidly progressing.
The worry I get with adding power is you can quite easily do a bit too much and burn yourself. I find it better to just add time and when your able to do 1x90 or so rest and retest.
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Ok got it. So in a nutshell…just focus on extending current power for longer duration rather than raise power at current duration (which has been my focus…).
Also for what it’s worth, especially after dealing(fighting) with ramp test numbers for years, I have not tested and dont plan on testing haha. I’m doing everything off rpe and HR to set my power targets. Basically I aim for stiff but not painful, HR topping out in workouts high 160s low 170s (my max ir 196-198).
Not trying to be obtuse, but why?.
Say 8 or 10x 2min with 1min rest are pretty hard, what makes 6 x 3min with 3min rest better?
How do you measure that they are better?
Thank you for the guidance. I’ve done several VO2 max blocks over the years, sometimes as hard as possible, and sometimes consistent power using erg mode, but I guess I never specifically focused on high cadence. Maybe I’ll give that a shot first.
I did 525 hours last year, which was typically 12-15 hour training weeks. When you say riding 8 hours but doing three workouts, do you mean 8 hours for the week? I’m not sure if you mean that would be a lot of riding or a little but to me it would feel like a light week, even with the VO2 work.
My guess would be because you’re spending half the interval getting your heart rate and breathing rate up to where it needs to be. And every rest interval just resets it.
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When I was trying to develop resilience:
- Week 1: 4x3’ 4’ rest / 3x4’ 4’ rest
- Week 2: 5x3’ 4’ rest / 4x4’ 5’ rest
- Week 3: recovery
- Week 4: 3x5’ 5’ rest / 4x4’ 4’ rest
- Week 5: 3x6’ 6’ rest / 4x5’ 5’ rest
Week 6: recovery
When I was trying to develop power at VO2max
- Week 1: 4x2’ rest as long as needed / 5x2’ rest as long as needed
- Week 2: 6x2’ rest as long as needed / 4x3’ rest as long as needed
- Week 3: recovery
- Week 4: 7x2’ rest as long as needed / 5x3’ rest as long as needed
- Week 5: 8x2’ rest as long as needed / 6x3’ rest as long as needed
- Week 6: recovery
Personal notes I made for my workouts
- 100+ RPM
- For durability: aim to have ragged, uncontrolled breathing, and 9/10 RPE by at latest the second half of the interval.
- For power development: go hard out of the gate, breathing should become ragged and uncontrolled within the first 30 seconds of the interval, vision should become blurry and arms should start shaking during the last 30 seconds. Milk out everything you got for the last 10 seconds. Rest until ready to go again. Workout is done when you feel like you need to vomit or can’t pedal fast enough to get uncontrolled breathing.
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Youre speaking about vo2 ‘resilience’ and power as if they’re two separate things to train and that isn’t exactly the case.
Yeah. I do think there’s a difference btwn:
-
Training to raise VO2 Max; and
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Training to raise power at ‘typical’ VO2 Max durations.
The former is purely about increasing aerobic capacity. The latter is a mix between aerobic and anaerobic, and so what’s needed and what workouts are needed depend on which front the athlete has more room to improve.
Resilience = I can pedal hard over and over as needed.
Power development = I can dump out more power after emptying my anaerobic capacity.
I don’t think it’s efficient to train both VO2max resilience and power development at the same time, the fatigue would be such that either I wouldn’t be able to do more than a couple sets, or the interval would be too long and I wouldn’t be able to finish before I collapsed.
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My general approach (which changes for a lot of athletes based on several factors) is this. Extensive SST/Tempo + Endurance (BASE!) → VO2 → Threshold/FTP → Race Prep.
How that periodization works and the timing is largely event- and athlete-dependent. If you’re prepping for ultra-distance stuff, race prep is going to be quite a bit longer (and less intense) than standard road or XC MTB-type stuff. E.g. you might have a 3-month race prep for Leadville vs 2-6 weeks for a roadie. Threshold FTP 4-8 weeks (1-2 blocks of 3-4 weeks); VO2 3ish weeks + recovery. Take your goal “peak” time and back it up from there.
No. Extend time or eliminate in-workout rest. Adding power comes later. You feel great on a 3x20 day, make it a 1x60 or add 10 min to the last interval., etc.
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