Whats worse, threshold or VO2?

Which do you dread or struggle with physically or mentally more? Personally for me its threshold. I think its mostly the mental aspect of those long ass intervals. You mean i have to do this for 12 whole minutes? 4 more times? What is this hell? VO2 as hard as it is, i can grin and bear the pain easier. Almost enjoy the challenge of just 1 more minute. Is it possible to learn to love threshold? Back when i lived in the gym 10yrs ago i hated squats. Then i did a squats for 30 days straight challenge and hugely improved my strength. From then on, i loved leg day. Maybe there is hope

3 Likes

(Not) Pro tip:

Reduce the wattage at which youā€™re doing threshold by 5 to 15 watts, whether youā€™re doing steady state intervals or over/unders.

Then work your way up gradually from 3 Ɨ 10 to 3 Ɨ 12 to 3 Ɨ 15 to 2 Ɨ 20 and beyond.

I used exactly this method to get to the point where I was able to do a ride with 1 Ɨ 26 and 1 Ɨ 56 at 98% of FTP.

Better to work at 96% to 99% of FTP and get 99.5% of the benefits than to work at 100% to 103% of FTP, die a thousand deaths, and limit your time in zone to a fraction of what you could be doing.

Also, and finally, try to use power to calibrate your RPE so you can feel your threshold on any given day and ride at it.

14 Likes

vo2- Iā€™d say threshold is a relative strength for me and I can usually progress it pretty aggressively, plus I think Iā€™m more mentally inclined towards that type of challenge. (itā€™s long, but I feel on top of the effortā€¦vo2 on the other hand feels sort of ā€˜unmanageableā€™ by design, I think.)
Iā€™m far from a punchy rider so improvements seem comparatively much harder won on anything shorter than ~5 minutesā€¦ I have to fight for every watt on those lol.

3 Likes

@Helvellyn Definitely a pro tip. Looking at threshold as a range rather than strictly hitting your exact prescribed number, 5W wonā€™t derail the workout but can drastically increase time to exhaustion. I would think the only time that 5W really matters is doing over unders, at which point itā€™s probably better to do like 15W over rather than ā€œjust barelyā€ for some lactate accumulation, and then 10W (or more) under.

Also to the OP, youā€™ve gotta be really well rested to hit those longer threshold workouts.

2 Likes

ā€¦ and well fuelled. Lots of carbs the day before. Big meals on the day. Plenty on the bike.

Yum.

3 Likes

If Iā€™m outside, then I prefer threshold, because I like going fast for a relatively long amount of time. If Iā€™m inside, I prefer vo2 because it distracts me from the fact that Iā€™m on the trainer.

4 Likes

Iā€™ll take VO2 over threshold any day. Just access beast mode and get 'er done. I did get a laugh after my last threshold ride, seeing that I hit a wall during the last interval in the EXACT same place as when Iā€™d done the ride last year (at a higher FTP this time, at least).

1 Like

It makes sense to clarify, that we should be talking about Threshold vs VO2 at about the same progression level. And assuming thatā€™s the case - threshold at 5+ is an absolute torture for me. VO2 feels more like an interval, even when itā€™s 5min long, and I try to believe that I can do ā€œjust a little bit more until itā€™s overā€. While threshold slowly but surely kills my desire to live.

As a result my current threshold level is around 3, while VO2 is at 6. Sometimes I must report threshold workouts as too hard/all out and TR would bring it down for me a notch. Maybe I should just HTFU though.

3 Likes

Threshold workouts are the worst. Iā€™d prefer three days of VO2 max workouts to one day of threshold. It is satisfying to complete a workout with (sometimes) upwards of 90 or 100 intervals during VO2 max workouts. I dread the 5 or 6 intervals for threshold. :sweat:

For me this must just suck because of the trainer itself, I.e., riding inside. I say that because my primary rides outdoors are on the mountain bike which should (due to so much climbing) be worse, but I find much easier to deal with the discomfort on the trail.

1 Like

I find it makes a huge difference on rpe of threshold workouts if your glycogen stores are actually full rather than kinda full. Upping the carbs about 3-4 meals before a tough workout + extra snacks helps a lot.

1 Like

All this hatred if Threshold just reinforces my theory that lots of people do their VO2 Max work too easy ā€¦

1 Like

Or threshold work too hard.

3 Likes

True ā€¦ but I already covered that! :wink::rofl:

Broadly speaking - VO2 is harder for me, butā€¦it depends on the interval type

If Iā€™m doing 3-4 minute VO2 workouts Iā€™m going to have a real hard day whereas if Iā€™m doing short/shorts I can just usually just power through. Its the extended periods gasping for air that I mentally dread

For thresholdā€¦actual 100% intervals arenā€™t bad - but if youā€™re talking 15+ minutes at 102%ā€¦it starts to get pretty rough

Iā€™d wager that most of the respondents saying ā€˜vo2 is easierā€™ are comparing like 30on 30off workouts to 13min over/unders.

Show me someone doing 5*5@120% and saying thatā€™s easier!

1 Like

I suck at threshold relative to vo2max. But basing workouts on proper 50min+ ftp tests and long 20min+ efforts makes them discomfortable at most.

Vo2max in the long interval format on the other hand is actually hard.

Threshold is definitely harder RPE-wise for me, and I 100% echo what others have said about fueling making a huge difference.

I would also add: caffeine makes a huge difference too. I started drinking a cup of coffee before a workout back when I was doing powerlifting-type stuff (read about it on Poliquinā€™s blog, RIP) and it made a huge difference, and itā€™s worked for threshold work too.

3 Likes

I find say 1hr Under/Over manageable, but 1.5hrs get to be exhausting, and feel that tiredness for several hours later.
VO2 on the other hand as detailed in the workouts to be easy.
I expect this is due to Threshold is conceptually designed based on FTP. Whereas VO2 isnā€™t, the latter is about maxing out Oxygen processing, that implies gasping for more breath.
I think you can use FTP with VO2 workouts as a step towards getting you too that max level quickly, but it is just the starting point. If you are doing VO2 at max then you canā€™t hold that FTP, by definition you must start to fade from there on. To do that I find I have to go well beyond the FTP target, ie, for short intervals 20%+.
A plus of VO2 workouts is recovery afterwards is quick.

Iā€™m the same. I can do TR sweet spot level 9+ workouts, vo2, anaerobic and be totally fine. But I struggle with even level 5 or 6 threshold workouts. Hate ā€˜em.