New to the forum and trainer road. I’m a male, 30y/o, 6ft and 142.5lbs 64.5ish kgs. AI FTP detection suggested 248w.
Started training with TR in early Feb but came from a base of 7 years riding with ups and downs battles with body image, weight, orthorecxia and hormonal issues.
I have trained structurally in the past and been coached. I love the structure and accountability that TR provides but found the ramp up in trading intensity to be very aggressive. Leaving me flat when the weekend comes and makes dealing with allostatic stress more difficult.
My questions is about why those who never seem to do structured training but ride at the weekend can often drop me up climbs or when the proverbial hits the fan.
I’m not sure if I’m too underweight/underfuelled, over trained, or there’s a blood work issue going on. I do have low Testosterone and am on TRT but the expected increases in mass, recovery and strength haven’t really presented themselves yet.
I try to eat very healthily, a lot of veggies with a portion of carbs with every meal. I partake in frequent but not excessively intense weight training around my mid volume TR plan. I eat about 30-40g per hour on the bike but still feel I’m lacking that ‘get up and go’ on the bike despite being a lighter rider than many in my cycling group. I’m neither fastest up the hill la nor strongest on the flat.
My Body fat is very low to be honest. I’d guess around 7-10% so have been recently trying to gain weight in an attempt to feel stronger even if it doesnt yield gains in my FTP.
Any help from the TR team or community would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I’m just crap
Big question to ask yourself is when are you getting dropped? Is it after you’ve been riding for a few hours? Big thing being discussed recently is durability, and other riders might have more of that than you.
How long did you take off? If it was a long time, are you attempting to come back too quickly? If it was an extended break and you’ve only been back at it for 1 month, I wouldn’t expect too much too soon.
Which plan are you on? Are you doing 3 hard workouts during the week and then expecting to be able to go hard again on the weekend? I’m wondering if you’d be better off doing 1 or 2 hard workouts during the week and counting that weekend ride as a hard ride. Especially if you’re just getting back to riding consistently, you’ll be WAY better off in the long run going easier but staying consistent with your training that trying to push too hard too fast and having to take more time off because you’ve overdone it.
If they’re only doing the weekend ride (or 2), they’re coming in way fresher than you are and are shooting their shot on the weekend, then resting for a week(ish?)
Again, I’m wondering if you’re going hard during the week, which is quality training, but it’s leaving you too tired to perform like you want on the weekend ride. If your goal is to be the best you can be on that specific ride, I’d focus my training on the things that will make me faster on that day.
For example, are you going hard before those climbs, taking pulls on the front etc.? If so, you’re pulling them up to the start of the climb, at which point they are fresh and you are tired, and they’re dropping the tired guy! Instead, draft off them until the climbs so you’re fresh when you need it. Also, are you doing any training that’s aimed at climbs the length you do in this goal ride? If you can nail those climbs when training, assuming you’re fresh on the day, you can nail those climbs on the weekend too. You’re a light rider, so you should be able to excel on the climbs with the right strategy.
So you are training hard during the week and feeling flat on the weekends. A group ride on the weekend is not going to have you performing at your best. Perhaps take an easy week for recovery and see if you can kick some … on the weekend ride.
When you’re “training” most of the time the weekend ride is a slightly fatigued Z2 ride where you’re getting in volume but also carrying fatigue from the week. A trainerroad plan probably doesn’t have you set up to have that be a harder / intensity session where you’re looking to perform.
Without seeing your calendar, if you want the weekend ride to be one of your strongest where you get after it, you need to make sure you’re giving yourself at least one light day the day before, potentially two.
Also - 30-40g an hour is not a lot. Most people are double that or more. If you’re not getting enough carbs in (i.e. eating primarily veggies and trying to be “healthy”) you could certainly be going in underfueled and not fueling adequately. Especially at your bodyfat and with Low T - I’d be suspicious you’re underfueling, but hard to say without digging into the diet more.
I’m a male 53 y/o 6ft 2" and used to hover around 150-155 lbs and now hover around 168 lbs. Lived my entire adult life until about age 50 in that “borderline underweight” level. I could do athletic things but would also say I struggled with energy level.
Issue for me was a natural tendency to under-eat. I could easily “forget” to eat lunch, and I to this day I still feel hunger only rarely. Was a vegetarian for years and ran into vitamin B deficiency as well.
Started eating more, consciously. Started eating meat a few times a week. Went from small->large breakfast. Focused on protein intake. Went from 155->168 in about a year. Energy levels improved.
I’m under 40 but exact same numbers. Lived most of my life close to 70kg’s sometimes even under. 5 years ago I started doing weight training and started to eat more, concentrating on getting enough protein.
Only took a year or more to get to 76kg’s, energy levels are much better.
Carrying some upper body mass and some fat I could loose to be marginally faster cyclist, but I’m not sure would it be worth it.
I’ve found I recover and adapt to training much better when I give the body lot’s of quality food.
Like others I suspect that you’re not eating enough. Your body can’t recover quickly enough, and finds it hard to make gains from the training you’re doing.
If you can, I’d probably chat with a nutritionist, or use a calorie-tracking app, but set it to ‘gain weight’.
Also who are the others on your group ride? Are they your age? To be honest a 250W FTP is not that much for a 30 y/o male, especially as only people that are quite talented tend to ride at that age. Especially if you go into the rides fatigued, it might be hard to ride at the level you need to to stick with them. Also if the climbs you get dropped at are short and sharp, it could be that they basically sprint up them, and with a low bodyweight and low testosteron, you might lack that punching power. It could be that you’re simply riding with the wrong group
The other thing is that group riding is also a skill. Not wasting energy, staying smooth, not doing too much work. If you’re getting dropped, but other don’t actually seem stronger than you, try working on riding (and hiding) skills.
You say you started training with TR in early Feb - so about a month ago.
As you get used to structured training again - especially as you say the ramp up in trading intensity has been very aggressive - it is to be expected that you are knackered by the weekend.
There is a lot of good advice here already.
My tiny contribution is this: consider dialling down the intensity ramp rate for a while and, also, be patient. A month isn’t really long enough to move the dial by a huge amount. Stick with the structure, balance it with rest and good nutrition and enjoy the results that will surely come.
To be brutally honest with myself and heeding all the good advice, I think under fuelling is the key issue. I have to say I’m not getting horrendously dropped on rides just always the nail in the hammer/nail equation in the tempo or hilly group rides, races are a no go for my confidence and if I can’t be at the pointy end in fast group rides races would be a step above.
Sucking it up and gaining weight and body fat might indeed benefit my adaptation and increase my overall robustness.
If someone could let me know have to share my training history here I will do it so you can all cast your experienced eyes on it
You’re getting dropped bc your ftp is 250. I have the same height at 74 kg and ftp of 350.
Unless you’re doing a super steep and/or sustained climb of many minutes, your w/kg doesn’t really matter. So with such low absolute ftp, you’re working really hard in the flats and on roller hills relative to a bigger stronger person, with very little advantage from your estimated ftp and w/kg associated with it.
If you know your underweight and bulking up would add strength, it’s probably well worth it, even if you maintain or slightly decrease your w/kg. Not to mention it’s just not healthy to be that thin at our height, but you know that as you’ve in your original post.
Some pros that have that skinny a physique are also training like 25-30 hours per week to produce it. To be a recreational rider and that low BMI isn’t similar at all
Thanks mate, harsh truths. Bulkier is better for rough, draggy British roads. Just go on a 3month food bender and get physically bigger even if it’s more fat snd a bit of muscle. The recovery benefits in my legs and overall strength would be a massive upgrade
Don’t worry about it. Focus on how to get yourself better. There will always be people who appear to be faster despite doing less and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. Some of them just got lucky with their natural ability. Some of them don’t seem to be doing structure because they never do a TR workout or hit the lap button for an interval but if you actually look at their riding they’re pretty much nailing the core components of consistency and time in zone. Some of them are doing secret training and keeping it off Strava. Some of them have years and years of training history which allows them to get by on relatively little now with the big aerobic engine they already built. Some of them might be even be doping! (hopefully not, but I’ve trained with and raced against guys who turned out to be doping, it happens)
Fuel your rides better. If TR is ramping up more aggressively than you can handle then dial it back either by choosing easier workouts when you need to or setting the overall approach to be less aggressive. Maintain the consistency over months and the improvements will come over time.
With all the training you’re doing, you’ll mostly gain muscle, not body fat. Right now your body can’t build much new muscle, because you’re not fuelling it enough.
I spent most of my late 20s and early 30s at 67 kg at 185 cm (so similar to you).
My FTP was also around 250 to 270. I was able to easily get my cat 3 and beat a lot of people though in time trials though.
I just had to use my brain. I got super aero (I can do 26.5 mph time trial on 270 watts). Got efficient with drafting and cornering and learnt to enjoy being dropped as something to improve on. I also never felt like I was a good cyclist until I took a year off and looked back on it. So you may actually be more hard on yourself than you need to be and you just happen to cycle with a quality bunch of cyclists.
I would try getting stronger though. During my year off I have got my weight up to 79 kg (aiming for 80 before doing a short cut to shed a bit of fat). And I have found I enjoy the gym just as much as cycling but it is cheaper, takes less time and I look far better aesthetically now.
