With my FTP, 1h lowest Z2 (IF 0.55) ride burns 545 kcal, 80g of carbs gives 320 kcal, deficit 225 kcal. Where’s the catch?
Yes! They aren’t miracles!
I sometimes get in this mindset after a big ride “why do I feel so tiree after 6.5hrs I just has a giant recovery shake”
@kosmo886 if you are well rested you can do 1 hour or 1.5 hour rides just using glycogen stored in your liver & muscle. So don’t worry too much about eating on the bike for such a short ride. I think you’re getting a lot of good advice in that regard from this thread.
Typically you can ride for the first little while on the glycogen stored in your liver and stored in the muscles you are using during the activity. You’ll see various estimates as to how much glycogen is stored in the liver…and without a doubt it varies from person to person…and of course you can’t get every last bit of glycogen out of the liver/muscle no matter how hard you try…but I always think of on-board available carbohydrate as about 700 to 750 kcals if I’m well rested.
Maybe it’s a little more for you or maybe it’s a little less but it’s probably not too much different than that. Probably a little less. So regardless of the TIME you ride if you watch your kJ during the ride you’ll probably start to feel a discontinuity in your perceived fatigue at about that 700 to 800 kJ point (if you aren’t eating). If you gut it out for another 40 minutes or hour you’ll really start to creep along.
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You dont know?
You’ll need to extend that 1 hour to 90 minutes or 2 hours to get the same adaptations. Or you could not over fuel get better adaptations and refuel straight after the workout.
If you want to become more Glycolytic and dont care about fat oxidation or damping the Mitochondrial biogenesis adaption then no catch.
If excessive IMO carb intake for short endurance sessions means you can do more volume week after week, then the negatives might be overcome by additional volume you couldnt otherwise achieve (probably want to be doing 18 plus hours a week though.)
There is a reason that Pro-racing teams periodise carbohydrate intake, they arent taking on 120g/hr in general training, that is reserved for racing and maybe key sessions / heavy training camps or blocks.
Yet the carb myth continues. Especially for the weekend warrior doing less the 8 hours a week.
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As others have pointed out it helps 3 hour plus (for an individual that might be longer or shorter depending on your weekly volume and where you are in your endurance training journey) and will help with recovery
Under 90 minutes a solid amount of carbs off the bike and you probably wont notice a difference. Hydration is equally, if not more important imo.
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Tim Podlogar on the ScientificTriathlon podcast said that in the lab, using glycogen depletion protocols, it takes from 1.5 to 2.5 hours before having to reduce intensity.
Timing depends on the individual. FWIW I’ve found for myself it’s around 2.5 hours.
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Somewhere between 2.5 hour and 3 hours for myself when reasonable well trained. 3-3.5 hr when on top form. Sounds like we are similar.
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“it takes from 1.5 to 2.5 hours before having to reduce intensity.”
One point I was trying to make is that it depends on the intensity. Time to fatigue is going to mostly depend on total energy expended…not time expending energy. Although the reservoir of stored glycogen does increase from untrained to trained, it’s kinda like VO2max…you pretty quickly get to just about the ‘tank’ you’re going to have.
OR, maybe I should say: I never figured out how to increase my glycogen storage beyond a certain point. Even though I tried with every fiber of my being.
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Yeah, I was actually making fun at ChatGPT take on about consuming excessive carbs during endurance rides in @carytb post. I mean, yes, it is factually correct, just math doesn’t click 
In reality, I don’t even bother with 1h rides anymore, everything starts with 2h and I consume ~20-30g/h up to and including Sweetspot. Only above that I go berserk and consume ~40g/h.
Not arguing, but is this known to be fact? Like is there an article on this or something? I ask because we all know they have a history of lying about what they consume. (Granted, the info in the article could be a lie too, but still curious. I grew up in the age of “Look at all those pro’s with mountains of pasta on the table”).
Well even Tim Podlogar talks about peroidising carbs and he seems to widely promote high carb intake.
Yes, when racing… which was my point… we arent pros and we aren’t competing in a Grand Tour.
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Yeah, I was wondering if you’d specifically seen something that said they were only using carbs for certain things (periodizing). No biggie. Was just curious.
TBH I think this is the point they are making a lot of the time. Historically, the pros have been severally under fuelling.
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You see these differences better when you start to use energy more in general. Talking like 15-20-25 hrs per week and more. And also as your FTP gets higher. Like if your FTP is 220 and you bring it up to 240 it’s a nice chunk, but if you’re doing max 90 mins it’s still not that big energy expense in big picture. Like say 300 FTP and your doing big hrs training weeks, then you really use energy and success from day to day comes really much that you stay up with energy levels.
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Bro. Where are you getting this false information
I think that’s probably it. I don’t personally notice any difference with >80-90g/h of carbs (as opposed to just eating before and after, or doing 40-60/h) unless I’m doing a ride that’s going to have north of roughly 150 TSS.
I am not a pro riding 4 hours every day with a z2 power of 300w.
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Makes sense. Most of my outdoor long rides are endurance paced unless I happen to be doing some mountain biking or happen to be on some big climbing gravel rides. But mostly endurance and mostly 3 hours or less so I don’t go nutty with nutrition. Just aim for 60g of carbs or more. During week just normal hour long trainer rides so no fueling worries there.
Right now training for a big event so doing long rides so I’m trying to work on getting at least 90h carbs per hour.
Interesting insight:
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AIFTP is at 317 right now and recently I’ve been doing several 2 or 3h rides with IF between .7 and .85.
I finally did a hard 4h ride yesterday (De Ronde PDX). 313TSS and 0.87IF. Kept the same fuelling strategy of 40g/h and felt super good. Feeling great today.
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Thanks that’s good to know. I’ve settled on eating 30g/hr , bananas and homemade flapjack and seem to be ok with that.
That route you posted certainly looks a bit complicated!