Big changes after 1st MTB race this season. Isnt this too much?

[SSaldanha]

I did my first real race this Sunday since the last Mountain Bike Ultramarathon I did in June 2024.

This race was marked in my plan as a B. I’ve had a training plan for mountain bike marathons since October and I’m now starting the specialty phase and the goal is to be at the top by the end of March in the first of 3 Ultramarathons to be done between now and June.

Sunday’s marathon was 60kms and 1300d+, done in 3h15. It was a huge effort and today, two days later, I still don’t feel up to doing anything more than recovery training. However, Tuesday is the day for VO2 training of 1h30 in my plan and I was already thinking of swapping it for the usal endurance training on Wednesday that is just 45 minutes long, but to my surprise today I’ve seen countless suggestions for altering training for alternatives with much more intensity, whether it’s VO2 training on Tuesday or endurance training on Wednesday and Thursday, as you can see in the images of what’s proposed for the next two weeks.

I also don’t see the next category B event in my calendar (image taken from the website, not the app), which is a marathon mountain bike race on Saturday and Sunday, February 22 and 23.

I wasn’t expecting any suggestions about increasing the intensity load this week after the race I did on Sunday. I was hoping there would be some suggestion of changing today’s VO2 training to something softer or no suggestion at all, never a proposal to change to something that is impossible to do today.

Do these suggestions make sense? What do I do with them, refuse today’s suggestion and then see if it’s feasible to accept/do the next ones? The fact is that even after the next two-stage event at the end of this month, the following weeks already have a proposal to adapt to much more intense training than what I have in the current plan.

By the way, I’ll leave you with an image of the effort assessed by Strava in this race and, in comparison, what was left of this event in my calendar.

Effort pattern in Strava is 449 but TRoad TSS only 221, is this related and if so how?

[Jolyzara]

Just my personal observation… but the TR philosophy tends to be to “train through” B events. I have certainly trained through plenty of events, especially when I younger, but now that my youth is behind me and racing is much more selective, I prefer to rest a bit going into and coming out of a B race. (Not talking the local weekly series here but a “real” B race).

My advice… if you aren’t ready and need more time to recover take it. You know your body!

[SSaldanha]

I’ve accepted the changes but swaped todays workout for an endurance easy ride am tomorrow and thursday probably will take it slower too but I guess next week workouts will be doable but not this week load nor the following week after the next B events.

Is there a way do decline some adaptations and accept others? Couldnt figure that out and accepted all but it would be easier to just decline the ones in the coming days and accept the rest.

[mwglow15]

Sorry I can’t help with the TR specific stuff but I agree with you that a VO2 workout probably isn’t best after an effort like that. Especially if (as you say) you’re still pretty fatigued from it.

@SSaldanha

Effort pattern in Strava is 449 but TRoad TSS only 221, is this related and if so how?

I’m sure they correlate somehow, like a high number from one means the other will be higher. But the absolute numbers can’t be related and I would basically not look at the Strava metrics at all

[ZackeryWeimer]

Nice job on the race! Looks like it was a hard effort.

If you’re still feeling fatigued from the race, you can certainly back things off for some extra recovery. Workout Alternates can be a great tool to use in situations like this, or you could browse our Workout Library and use the filters to search for an easier session you’d like to do.

The adaptations that were proposed are based on your current Progression Levels. looking at your current Progression Levels, it looks like the changes that were made are ones we’d expect to see! If your workouts were not updated, they’d be too easy for your current fitness. Adaptive Training is working on your behalf here to make sure you keep getting faster.

The reason you didn’t see your races on the “proposed adaptations” page is that there aren’t any workouts scheduled on the days of your next races (the 22nd and 23rd), thus there were no workouts to change for those days. Looking at your TR Calendar now, I can see that your races are indeed still on there (and it should be that way on your end as well).

There isn’t currently a way to accept some adaptations but not others. If this changes in the future, we will be sure to post about it on the forum!

As @Jolyzara mentioned above, we generally recommend “training through” B events. It’s only possible to be at a true “peak” once or twice per season, which is why we recommend using your B events to support your build-up to your A event. You may have to go into a few B events with a little more fatigue than might be ideal, and you may find that you still have tough training weeks to get through, even after B races. All of this is by design to get you into top shape for your upcoming A event.

As they also said, though, if you aren’t ready to push on and feel the need for extra recovery, you should definitely take it! Only you know how you’re feeling, especially after a big race effort, so if you need some extra recovery time to keep your plan on track, then that sounds like the right move.

More info on peaking and A/B/C races can be found in these TR resources:

• Tapering and Peaking for Cyclists: Be Ready for Race Day
• Event & Race Prioritization – A, B, and C Races

Concerning the Strava metrics, there is no relation to TR, so I can’t comment on what that might mean.

Hope that helps clear some things up. Feel free to let me know if you have any additional questions!

[Trix8806]

For “B” races, on the week leading up I generally still do a vo2 session the Tuesday prior and a 45-60 min easy spin with a few openers the day before the race. Volume is decreased the week leading up to it. If possible, I try and make the week following a recovery week, since we all need those every 3-4 weeks anyways. Basically, on race week, I just combine my 2nd vo2 session with my long ride.

Although it’s a B-race, I may not be in “A-race shape” but it still gets 100% effort. If it’s not reasonable for a recovery week after, I still wouldn’t be doing anything other than endurance rides until 3-4 days after the race.

[grwoolf]

Progression doesn’t need to be perfectly linear week to week (and some coaches actually advocate against it). Periodically stacking multiple hard days and then stacking rest days afterwards can be very effective compared to always following the same training pattern. I personally find it helpful to have a overload in the plan from time to time (as long as you eventually take adequate recovery). Races are great for that, stage races even better. If I have a B/C race coming up, I’m inclined to go into it with a little extra fatigue, not less if training is the priority. If I feel fatigued after a race or particularly long ride/workout, my typical approach is to get on the bike and attempt the scheduled workout. If you get through the warmup and into the first interval and you aren’t feeling it, turn that session into an easy endurance day or even a recovery spin if that’s what feels right. But if the intervals are manageable, it can be useful to push through and do the training when you have some fatigue. There are times where you want to be as fresh as possible to hit big challenging workouts, but that doesn’t mean you need to be fresh for every interval session. When I’m in doubt about a training session, I’m looking for “big picture” fatigue markers like poor sleep or irritability, I never listen to my legs (which can often feel terrible and still hit big numbers). People are different and fatigue markers vary, so it’s something to learn with trial and error.

[SSaldanha]

Tks its always ensuring to get some feedback from someone from the TR staff.

Also tks to all comments above I hear you

Yesterday did an alternate lower on IF and TSS to the WO sheduled for today (45 minute endurance) so it was kind of an active recovery ride very easy:

For today I pulled the 1h30 endurance ride sheduled for thursday and picked an alternate similar in IF but with only 1h lenght and moved the 1h30 VO2 workout that was sheduled for yesterday to thursday. This will give me some extra recovery from the race and still put me back on track doing both hard WO this week the 1h30 VO2 thursday and the 2h Threshold WO sheduled for saturday. Sunday I have the usual 3h30 group ride outside.

However now I was surprised with another adaptation suggesting for today to go back to the 1h30 endurance ride and with higher stress.

I guess AI is telling me dont be lazy you can do this!

[Eddy_Twerckx]

@Jolyzara

but the TR philosophy tends to be to “train through” B events.

Yea I don’t think they do the best job with the training around B events personally. I have a 3-day stage race next weekend and it has a VO2 max workout the next day. They basically just treat them as normal workouts. For a C event I would classify it as a normal workout sub, but a B event should get some slightly different treatment IMO. It’s a B because it’s not my main A event, not because it’s a small event. I think TR misses the mark regarding training around B events pretty badly.

[grwoolf]

@Eddy_Twerckx

but a B event should get some slightly different treatment IMO

Everyone has their approach to B events and that is cool, but I personally need to be all in for either training benefits or racing for a result. These goals are often at odds with each other and trying to balance the 2 just means I’d be doing a middling job at both. For me, anything that isn’t an “A” race is 100% all in on training benefits (or just for fun in the off season). That doesn’t mean you don’t race hard; often times it means racing really dumb and doing big efforts and taking tactical risks. There are lots of training benefits from races (tactics, group dynamics etc.) that are hard to replicate in regular training, so I see it as one of the most valuable training tools. Doing a “mini-taper” into a B event isn’t going to have you peaking for that event and is probably disrupting your training progression. Resting before or after a B race doesn’t have to look any different than resting before or after a big training day. Going into an event fatigued can be beneficial just like going into a hard workout with fatigue.

Again, I’m not saying anyone is wrong to give B events some priority at the expense of training, but I’ve personally found it really freeing to make those events strictly training focused. And racing that way can actually generate some surprisingly good results and just be a ton of fun with no pressure and trying new things.

[Eddy_Twerckx]

@grwoolf

For me, anything that isn’t an “A” race is 100% all in on training benefits

See for me, if I only prioritize my A races I’d only have 2 races for the whole season. I race the whole season. I don’t know how to go into a race and not be all in to be honest. When I line up, I’m going to go for the win. I know that I can’t be at my top shape for every race all season. But I’m not going to go into a race with any other mindset than trying to win. Maybe if I was doing massive events like Unbound or Leadville. But I race crits mainly. My A races this year are a 4-event omnium and a series of crits (Chicago Grit). Those are in my calendar to base my training on, but I have about 20 races planned for the year. I won’t taper for all of them obviously, but a few stage races throughout the season will get a short taper. Like Tucson Bicycle Classic next weekend. I’m not going to do my normal training block the day before. And it’s 4 races. So there’s no way I’m going my normal training the Tuesday after the race. The only way I would be able to continue training as normal is not taking the race seriously. Which I don’t see the point of. Why would I even sign up for the race? I’m going into it trying to win. I may not it’s still early season I won’t be let down if I don’t do well. But I’m still going in to win.

@grwoolf

Doing a “mini-taper” into a B event isn’t going to have you peaking for that event and is probably disrupting your training progression. Resting before or after a B race doesn’t have to look any different than resting before or after a big training day.

I disagree. Doing a mini taper for me means I shed just a little more training fatigue and can come in a little fresher. But I also know I can’t just resume normal training as if it was a normal training weekend most likely.

I think we’ll just have to disagree about our approaches to B races. I don’t think there’s a right answer that can be applied to everybody. I just couldn’t imagine only focusing on two A events for the year. I’d miss out on so much racing.

[grwoolf]

@Eddy_Twerckx

Maybe if I was doing massive events like Unbound or Leadville. But I race crits mainly. My A races this year are a 4-event omnium and a series of crits (Chicago Grit).

Yeah, I think that’s a big difference. Unbound/Leadville are my only A races this year and my total races for the year is probably less than 15 days. Focusing on 5+ hour events, I’m not racing every weekend like some might with a crit or XC series. For a series, it’s all about consistency over time and every result matters. Tough to truly peak more than 2–3 times a season, so riding a lower peak longer makes sense. For me, I’ve got 2 shots during the year at races where I’m focused on results. Everything is about peaking for those 2 days. Sometimes results come in B/C races, but I’m not going to kick myself if they don’t.

It’s not that I don’t race hard and have fun at my B/C races (in some ways that can be more fun with no pressure). But the priority is still structuring those races to support my A goals. I’ll do a 2 day stage race a month prior to Unbound. In the week leading up to the stage race, I’ll pile on ~20 hours and 1000 TSS. That obviously doesn’t make me my best for the stage race, but that week capped off with 2 days of hard racing creates a big overload with great timing to absorb/recover prior to Unbound. And what I’ve found is that I often surprise myself in B/C races with this approach (I got 4th in that stage race last year and set a 5+hr hour power PR in the process). There is a very good chance I would have been on the podium at the stage race last year with fresh legs, but a podium at Unbound was the overriding goal (and I’ll take the best shot for a single Unbound podium over multiple B/C race podiums any day). And the real dangerous trap is “sort of” getting fresh for the Stage race missing the podium there and also missing the training opportunity for Unbound. Again, if it was a series where every race was part of the bigger goal, I’d take a different approach.

@Eddy_Twerckx

I don’t think there’s a right answer that can be applied to everybody. I just couldn’t imagine only focusing on two A events for the year. I’d miss out on so much racing.

Agree that it’s very individual and dependent on events and also season goals. But I disagree that you can’t enjoy a season of racing many events while putting your focus on 2 of them. I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything going into B/C races with lots of fatigue or without a chance to podium, I just enjoy racing my bike hard.

[SSaldanha]

@grwoolf

Resting before or after a B race doesn’t have to look any different than resting before or after a big training day. Going into an event fatigued can be beneficial just like going into a hard workout with fatigue.

I get that and its not the pre event workouts that I find not achievbale or too soft like a tapper week prior to A races. The issue here is to have big jumps in difficulty levels on several workouts after having just made an all out race although its marked has B on my agenda it still had some importance.
I felt yesterday I was not ready to perform a VO2 1h30 workout (wasnt before and for sure not after the suggestion to make it even harder).
But we can all mange that with alternates and moving things around a bit. If I had felt the adaptations were all non achievble I would have rejected them but I know than in a couple of days I can get that extra load, not just now, so I accepted the changes and then adapted the two workouts for yesterday and today based on my fatigue from the race.

[SSaldanha]

@Eddy_Twerckx

So there’s no way I’m going my normal training the Tuesday after the race. The only way I would be able to continue training as normal is not taking the race seriously. Which I don’t see the point of.

Thats my point too👍

[Eddy_Twerckx]

@grwoolf

don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything going into B/C races with lots of fatigue or without a chance to podium,

I guess that’s where I draw the line before a B and C race. A C race is a workout to me. It won’t change my training leading into it. Like a Saturday crit would just take the place of a Saturday workout. And I’d still do the same mid-week workouts leading in. But to me, a B race changes my schedule a little. It doesn’t get a full taper like my A races and I’m not expecting to peak. But it’s still an event where I want to do well. And I might swap a Thursday hard intensity day with a short day or easy ride. To me, if you’re not changing any training before and after a B race, then it’s not a B race, it’s a C race. I will still go hard and try to win a C race. But it doesn’t change my training. Maybe it’s semantics but I think a lot of what you would call a B race, meaning you go into it still training and it doesn’t change your training at all, I would call a C race.

So for me, if it changes my training it’s a B race. If it doesn’t change my training it’s a C race.

[Jolyzara]

This is interesting to me as I know two different coaches with similar dueling philosophies. (Granted this is for high school XC running)…

Coach #1 will have his athletes do a hard workout the day before a race. His athletes wear training shoes in the early season and they “train through” ultimately suppressing performance until the championship races at the end of the season. He is known to have his athletes “tempo” a race as well.

Coach #2 will adjust training and go in fresh. His philosophy that if you race it needs to be at 100% otherwise you a mentally allowing yourself for a subpar performance. Races are sacred. When you line up, it matters, every time.

The thing is… both have coached State Champions, individually and teams. This tells me both systems can work, it just comes down to what works for you and what you buy into.

[Eddy_Twerckx]

I think it depends on your goals. It’s like guys that peak for the World Champs vs doing well for the whole season or to win a series. And I think @grwoolf and my approach are different because of that. When your events are big long races like Unbound and Leadville, you are essentially peaking for a championship race. Every race and event leading up to those are just there to better prepare you for the peak event. It’s example 1 in your post. My events are smaller. And my goals are different. For one, I don’t need to peak for a long event. I can time my form to be the highest for my events, which are a week+ of crits. But I want to do well throughout the season. To be frank, I want to win every race. I know I won’t but my mindset is like example 2. A race is sacred and I go in with the mindset of winning. I honestly can’t even imagine going to a race to “tempo” as you said. Going into a race to just do a hard ride doesn’t make sense to me. I wouldn’t pay for that.

I’m flying to Tucson for TBC. It’s still only a B race. But there’s no way I’m continuing my same training and flying over for a race and not giving myself the best shot to do well. Do I need a full recovery week after? No. But I do need a day or so before getting back into training. So it’s a B race because it does alter my training some.

Because most of my races are crits, most are C races. I just treat them like a weekend workout and my training doesn’t change. For my B races I’ll usually still hit my Tuesday workout but keep it easy later in the week. And maybe one easy ride swapped in for the first hard intensity day.

[grwoolf]

@Eddy_Twerckx

So for me, if it changes my training it’s a B race. If it doesn’t change my training it’s a C race.

Makes a lot of sense in the context of your racing. For me, it’s a binary thing, so it’s either A or B during the season. I’ll do some off season races that I guess could be considered “C” races. I don’t alter my training for them because I’m not training for anything that time of year and just doing them for pure fun with friends. I’ll do Austin Rattler (local race) pretty much every year in November and I added Big sugar last year. I’m still racing hard and can usually sneak into the top 10 (age group) with leftover fitness, but I’ve got zero interest in doing the work required to fight for a podium after a hard season of training. There’s only so many mental and physical training matches to burn every year. I’m basically shut down on any serious training between mid August (leadville) and January (start of new season). But still enjoy racing.

[grwoolf]

@Jolyzara

The thing is… both have coached State Champions, individually and teams. This tells me both systems can work, it just comes down to what works for you and what you buy into.

Yeah, there is not such thing as the “best” plan and there are always multiple paths to success. I listened to a podcast recently that preached the value of mixing up your training to provide new stimulus if you are hitting a plateau. While consistency and progressive overload are still king, highly structured training can also be the enemy if your body reaches a point of homeostasis with the absence of additional training stimulus. It kind of flies in the face of some structured training constructs where you see athletes with a fixed schedule for intervals Tues/Thurs, rest on Mon and/or Fri, always do a long ride Saturday, etc. Endurance athletes can be creatures of routine and habit and that is really good to a point, but the podcast was suggesting that mixing things up can introduce new forms of stimulus without significantly increasing volume or intensity. I’m going to experiment with some of these concept this year. Rather than always doing my intervals with an endurance day in between, I’m going to try stacking my interval days every few weeks. They also suggested taking your endurance rides and mixing in uncomfortable cadence work periodically. Basically anything to periodically hit the body a little different vs. the weekly routine of trying to go a little harder and longer each week. I think this is also where racing comes into play because it’s often a disruption to our weekly routine (for those of us not racing weekly). Like anything else, the benefits (or lack of) are going to be highly individual, but I always like to experiment with a few new things each year. And bad weather has already been forcing some changes to my training anyway so I plan to run with it a bit and add some intentional disruption from time to time.

[SSaldanha]

So after accepting all the suggested big changes surprisingly suggested after a big race effort when hoping to keep the same plan or some easier WO suggestions (because it was a B race) and having only made some changes in the first two WO of the week with alternates to lower a bit the intensity and duration and get some recovery, I was mentally prepared today to go for the first hard WO of the week.
Just to remember before the B race I had Tucki VO2 1.5 and accepted the suggestion for the Big Gun VO2 4.0 (a scaring MF at this time).

But after those two first WO of the week (endurance WO) I got this suggestion today. What to think on this?:

For today no more Big Gun

And the following 3 weeks VO2 WO were also swapped for lower intensity WO (next images). I dont have the prints for all the adaptations Ive accepted before but I remember all VO2 WO had a big jump and now it seems AI is putting some ice on its own expectations after my B race.

Is this based just on how I’ve changed the last two WO to have a bit of recovery?

It seems Ill still have to deal with the Big Gun later on