I'm hungry all the time, and I still don't understand how to fuel

Nutrition
1

Hello chat,

I have for over a year been struggling with Nutrition, and somehow I don’t feel like I have significantly improved even after payed for 2 nutritionist at different points.

Problem

The problem is that I don’t fully understand my nutrition. And sometimes I feel confused with what my body tells me.

Because sometimes I eat more, and I feel like I’m getting hungrier instead of satisfied.

It’s worse when I find myself really really hungry after eating, and eating more only seems to make it so much worse that I feel slightly sick, which leads me to believe is some kinda of sugar crash / hypoglycimia.

Background

So background, I’m 30 years old, I have currently quite low FTP at 193 (
2.39 W/kg) for 83kg, 182cm. I have never been sporty, and I always really skinny (before), but since using TR (or cycling), went from 68kg to 83kg (in the first year on TR, been stable at 83 in the last year).
I also tend to overcomplicate things, and be over analytical, so bear with me.

EDIT: Currently on Low Volume Masters (about 3.5h/week) + cycling arround as transport, till I figure out my diet. I have done Low Volume (normal) and Mid Volume in the past.

What I want to build is a framework to know what to eat, and when. I have had 2 nutritionist before, and both gave me plans where I was under fuelling[?] (other thread). This I think lead me to be always hungry and going into hypoglycemia quite often, which led me to believe I might have diabetes (which I tried to get it check twice at my GP), but also to not trust my hunger queues.

I’m now trying to follow more what my body tells, and follow more my hunger queues, and eat when I’m hungry. (I know crazy).

Where we are currently.

My current working plan is:

Breakfast:
50g oats, 150g milk, 100g blueberries (or other fruit), 25g nuts
(56g carbs, 30 protein, 21g fat - 550 Cal)

Lunch:
It varies a lot, but I aim for 120g of chicken, 200g (cooked weight) brown rice or other carb, 200g veggies (sometimes is just a side salad of leafy greens)

Afternoon:
Sandwich 2 slices wholegrain bread, some filling like ham, cheese, peanut butter etc…

Workout:
Another sandwich 2 hours before
Banana 5 mins before
During the ride some dutch breakfast cake - 40g carbs (only on 1:30 threshold days)
After:
200g Yogurt, 120g fresh fruit, 50g of no sugar granola, 20g of nuts

Dinner:
Quite consistent something like:
120g of chicken or beef equivalent
200g (cooked) of brown rice or potatoes or wholegrain pasta
200g of veggies (usualy something like brocolly, green beans, carrots, peas)

2h after: another sandwich

And if it was the threshold day again: 2h after another sandwich

However I’m still a bit lost and I would like to be pointed in some direction so I can try to learn, read on the subject, ask for help from a professional whatever. I really just want to solve the problem.

It mainly comes down thoses lots of episodes where I feel really strong hunger queues, and when eating seems to make it feel worse.

What is causing this?

My hypothesis is that my glycogen levels are droping so low after these workouts that the insuling produced after the workout brings the blood glucose super low?

So the obvious solution would be eating more right? However I get confused that this is the answer too

  1. When I have these blood sugar crashes or episodes of itense hunger, most of the time eating more makes it even feel worse, which confuses me.

  2. This happens also quite often on rest weeks, which doesn’t make much sense. The only explanation I can get for this is that perhaps since I fuel slightly less on rest weeks I can’t recover from the workouts prior, but still that doesn’t make much sense since I also have increased the nutricion and it seems like is more or less the same.

  3. Also on more macro level, I have not been losign weight, which would debunk the story that I’m underfueling right?

So what does this leave me, with.

Could it be that I’m actually having two much food? Because the nutricionist do seem to think that since all their plans actually be quite a bit less food that I’m actually eating, after the first few days where it felt awful it was okay, until I did threshold workouts, and absolutly bonked.

Also I often feel like my legs feel really tired after workouts, strangly also quite often o rest weeks, and after these sugar crashes.

Other strange symptons that pop in and out and I feel like are related are pain in my armpits, but I also have not been able to understand the cause.

For now what I will be doing is trying to eat wholefoods when I’m hungry, but I would like to understand better these symptons and my body.

1 Like
2

It seems like you are eating too much….leaving aside the meals, you are eating three sandwiches a day as snacks. That is a LOT of extra calories.

You don’t go from 63 to 86kg unless you have a calorie surplus in your diet.

As for feeling (not the same as “being” hungry), my guess is you need to work on the timing of your meals more than anything else.

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The plan above is only been in the last 3 months, and my weight has not changed in the last 3 months.

The weight has been more or less stable for a year.

4

Just an off beat suggestion: have you tried changing your workout time during the day to see what effect that has on your cravings.

5

I could definetly try, what would be the suggestion?

I usually already change it up on the weekends where I usually workout first thing in the morning.

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I don’t have a good answer to this. It was just to see if it changed your cravings. Since you all ready have 2 different times, i think you have this idea covered.
Plus I’m not a nutritionist. My eating habits are not very stable and my spouse hates my eating habits. I’m more of a grazer and would prefer to eat 1 real meal about 2pm instead of those 3 meals a day

7

I’m not a nutritionist, but the thing that jumps out at me is you’re essentially eating 6 small meals a day, plus snacks, and you’re still hungry. Something there has to change.

Do you drink much water? Eat much salt? Get enough carbs? Fiber? I’m just throwing out questions because I’m wondering what your body is asking for that it’s not getting, which is causing the chronic hunger.

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9

Did I miss it… how many hours a week/day are you working out?

I’d gain weight and be starving all the time if I ate that many carbs, too many at the wrong times drives a hunger for more carbs. But, I only ride 8-11 hrs a week most of the time, and my ftp is about 315. I follow the Pfaffenbach diet, starting by making sure I get my protein and fats (both are satiating), get my base amount of carbs, and then add carbs as needed depending on the workout/ride that day.

Fueling specific for rides: If I am doing VO2max workout, it’s usually in the morning, and I drink a cup of coffee (sugar in it), take 30g gel right before starting 15 min warmup, take another 30g gel a couple minutes before starting intervals. That gets me through a like a 6x4.

I do my sweet spot and threshold work outside, and will eat a cup of overnight oats with coconut milk, and about 200g of blueberries and cherries (buy frozen and defrost overnight), with a teaspoon of sugar added, plus a few cups of coffee with sugar. Then take a bottle with 60g maltodextrine, and a Hammer flask full of gels and usually have 2 or 3 servings (30g ea) of gels over a 2 to 2.5 hour ride (that’s 60g/hr), and continue that pace if I go 3+ hours.

After one of the 2+ hr intensity rides, I’ll eat lunch with some carbs in it (pasta or pizza usually), maybe spring for a pint of ice cream, and some fruits, as far as the carbs. And eat the usual protein (and sufficient fat comes with the protein for what I eat in protein and carbs).

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10

If you’re doing like 20 hour weeks then this might not be too much food in a day, however if you’re only doing one hour TR sessions, this is way too many calories and way too much carbohydrate. The CHO is also poorly timed in some cases. You’re eating carbs all day long.

Time the carb intake around workouts, then focus on protein and fat at other times. I find a little bit of fat closer to bed helps me feel full. Carb loading before bed not only makes me hungry but gives me crazy dreams too, which means my sleep is worse.

You have to start tracking your macros at least for a week or two if you want to get a handle on this. If I eat “intuitively” I’ll go bankrupt and weigh as much as my truck. I wish my ftp was as high as my ability to injest calories because I’d be on a world tour team. :joy:

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12

Guys, he says his weight was stable the last three months. So by definition he is NOT eating too much.
“constant hunger” can just be a consequence of lots training, not necessarely something to worry about.

If the problem you are trying to solve is that eating apparently makes you hungry rather than satisfied, I’d look at few things:

  • eat slowlier, give you body time to properly detect the influx of nutrients. Force yourself to not eat eagain for 20…30min after finishing your plate. Then re-assess if you still feel hungry or not.

  • Another reason for never feeling satisfied could be that your nutrition misses something your body is asking for (leveraging theory). That typically would be protein (aim to hit at least 1.6g/kg/d), electrolytes or micro nutrients (try more veggies, aim for 30 different plants per week as a rough guidance)

  • Sometimes also signaling of thirst and hunger can be confused. Make sure you drink a good amount of water before eating and also throughout the day

  • Getting more fiber might also help, depending where you are with that. Again, more veggies. Also make sure that for your sandwiches to use bread high in fiber (look for >10g fiber / 100kcal of bread)

Also notice that the times you get hungry are trainable. Try to eat at constant times at the day and after a while that will be the times you become hungry.

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Hey there, many of us have a similar struggle.

From your ftp, height, weight change and weight, I can’t make any judgement as to whether you have a healthy body composition or not. You could be fine. :slight_smile:

For a framework, I’ve used the TR podcasts with Pfaffenbach to set protein, fat goals and basic “go to” food stuffs.

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You have gotten plenty of excellent advice so far. I will just add that letting hunger guide your eating is a very bad idea. You are eating often enough to not feel any hunger during the day. Your body is not to be trusted.

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15

How much water are you drinking in an average day?

Thirst can be misinterpreted as hunger.

I used to over eat a lot (snacks) until I took some advice and began proactively hydrating throughout the day.

I start the day with a pint of water. Then periodically throughout the day drink a glass of plain water with the goal of hitting 5 pints a day minimum in total (I only count plain water or water with a hydration tablet when on the bike towards this goal so anything else like tea, juice, coffee is excluded).

I’m currently 88kg at 190cm (51 yr old male).

The change in hunger was significant- it took a couple of weeks to set in and maybe a further couple of weeks for me to embed the practice as a sustainable ‘habit’.

I swear my fatigue resistance on the bike has improved as a result, but this may well be placebo or some other subconscious bias.

Lots of other things also feel ‘better’ though - alertness in the day / condition of my skin / sleep is even better … who knew? :grinning:

Main benefit - I feel less hungry less often so my snacking has reduced a LOT. This has positively supported my body composition goals over the last 2 years and helped me maintain a more balanced and psychologically healthy relationship with food.

I am also confident I’m more generally healthy as a direct consequence - better hydrated but also I’m not constantly spiking my insulin with unhealthy snacks or processed foods (the inevitable go-to option when ‘snacking’) which I understand can lead over the longer term to pre-diabetic symptoms and also cause a constant peak and crash of blood sugar which then leads to more instances of hunger. :+1:t2:

Best of luck in your quest to resolve the challenges you’re facing :grinning:

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Yeah the bodies hunger response is notoriously rubbish. The body doesnt actually have any “sensors” that tell it it’s hungry - the hunger sensation is all just based on subconscious cues and habits.

People who eat more get hungry faster even if they are well nourished.

My observation on the OPs history is that although their current weight is stable - indicating a balanced calorie intake - they have been through a recent period of extended calorie surplus if they have increased from 68kg to 83kg in a year. Maybe the OP just needs to allow their body to get used to this new-normal of food intake?

As for a general food stratagy - I am an advocate of food logging via myfitness pal and looking at the macros. I just try to get 1.5g per KG of protein a day and make sure that any extra calories I’m putting in to fuel my rides are in the form of carbs. I find the fat macro then takes care of itself if I use general “common-sense” healthy eating advice for my main meals and snacks.

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I’ve felt the same way at times. Constant hunger. I think it’s insulin sensitivity brought on by too many carbs. The best way I’ve found to break it is, is to just be hungry for a bit. After a few days the new normal starts to set in. Make sure you are eating enough to meet your daily requirements and fuel your workouts, but ignore those snacking impulses. Some form of lazy-mans intermittent fasting might help, such as not eating breakfast until 10 or 11 am.

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Water helps with this too

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(1) What does a typical week look like for you, training-wise (including weight lifting, etc.)?
(2) What are these “really strong hunger queues” you mention, and are they always occurring after workouts?
(3) Do I understand right that the most you ever eat “on the bike” is 40g of carbs?

21

I have had days when I’m hungry, really hungry, and other days when I’m just fine. I try to eat lighter things and not binge on whatever I can get a hold of, wrestle into my mouth. Water helps, a salad, some days a handful of chips (crisps). :person_shrugging: Maybe I’m craving salt? I try to figure out what my brain thinks I need, but it’s sometimes just about leashing it to a nearby tree and denying it. :roll_eyes:

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22

@tuxedotrainer you’re ftp is low. when you train, you’re KJ are a function of power output and duration, so you’re really not burning that many KJ when riding, even for a while. So keep that in mind. Also, despite the hype, you don’t need so much on the bike nutrition if you’re only training for an hour or 1.5. It’s a big deal for longer stuff, but no doubt hyped up for recreational exercise.

As far as eating, take in a lot more carbs and fats. For example, your lunch / dinner with 200g rice and a piece of chicken is like 200 calories worth of complex carbs (100g cooked rice is around 100cal) and something like 400-500cap total. That’s just not that much food/energy per meal. Same with the sandwich snacks. If you’re having proper whole grain bread (not the tiny slices) then they’re like 100cal each, so a sandwich is around 300-400 depending on what you put into it.

I’d suggest dropping the idea of these baby bird meals all the time. I know it’s a ‘nutrition’ thing that’s popular and has been in fitness communities for years now, but eating til you’re full is really what you ought to do. If you feel full after pecking at one of these currently, it’s prob just bc you’ve mentally come to associate that sized meal with satiety (you can change that). Also, even if you keep your meals similar in structure, add a lot of fat to it, which is calorie dense (high calories to low weight in grams).

Also, your big weight gain has nothing to do with starting TR, unless this obsessive eating schedule is something you picked up when you decided to start training with TR. 68kg at your height is stick man level, and 83kg with that kind of ftp and a weight change that quickly suggests you just packed a bunch of body fat onto your frame. You’re not overweight even at 83kg, so lax the structured eating, add fats to these meals to up the calories, and drop the frequency.

For myself, I have a 600cal breakfast, 800cal lunch, usually a 800cal pre/post workout second lunch, then 800-1200cal dinner plus occasionally another 600-800cal post dinner ‘snack’. So we are talking 3000-4000/day and an eat about the same stuff everyday with minor deviations. I burn I’d say on average 800-1000cal from training 1-1.5hrs. All foods are ‘whole’ foods, but each meal is packed w fats and complex carbs. I don’t eat any ‘junk food’ or otherwise ultra processed stuff besides maybe sausages. I also eat food with fat naturally, don’t add it. Like I won’t add butter or cooking oil to something. I’ll just eat the real full flavored thing (like not buy lean chicken breast w no fat then add cooking oil so it’s not gross lol or eat very lean ground beef and add butter and/or cheese so it actually tastes good - do you see the irony in this common practice :man_facepalming:).
For example, I just had 1cup oatmeal (300cal), 1 scoop peanut butter (180cal), a handful of peanuts for crunch (160cal), 1 banana (80cal), and a handful of choco chips (150cal). Try eating meals like that. Buy full fat whole milk, yogurt, eat chicken thighs (not lean breast), 80/20 beef, pork sausages, etc. I might have a higher than normal metabolism, but if you’ve lived your life until now as a 183cm 68kg guy, so do you (I’m about 183, 74kg).

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This is an important point. If I’ve been eating normally, I can comfortably make it through 1.5 hours of lower or medium intensity rides without taking on any fuel; my power output as a 77kg rider is higher than most cyclists (certainly not elite, though) and I’m burning a ballpark of 1000 calories/hour around my Z2-Z3 transition. The choice of whether and how to fuel a ride is quite nuance and not something I’ll get into here, but for your power output and eating patterns, I think it would be rare in which you’d see much (if any) benefit of taking on calories during a 60-90min ride.

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