Have done a few more rides. Do to the knee pain I have locked the fork to be straight continuing the thinking from before that the knee pain was from overworked stabalizers. Rides since then have been pain free and felt great.
A few negatives though:
the lock screw doesn’t really lock the fork. Have to straddle the bike without putting pressure on it before I can mount it, otherwise it turns a bit and doesn’t turn back
-Feels harder to keep the same cadence I was keeping. Was gnerally around 90 rpm and now about 10 less)
legs are a bit more sore doing z2 workouts
Took a ramp test in TR the day before getting the eflex and just finished one. FTP went down by ~20 watts (from ~240) Felt like it used my quads differently, sort of higher up my legs). Guessing there is still some muscle use difference that has to be made. Hoping those muscles are also used outdoors so not just training for the eflex
Just started SSB mid 2, thinking after next weekend I may try unlocking the fork and seeing how things go again and hope my stabalizers are stronger to not have knee pain
As far as the leaning and stabilizing is concerned, it can be largely controlled via handle bars. Keep them from turning much or at all will make the bike stay mostly vertical. So just make sure to hold the bars with more authority than you have done on a rigid trainer.
I think it’s an open question with no proof one way or the other.
That said, I think there may be impact on power measures and/or applied via motion. I have a rather lengthy and incomplete Google doc with some initial thoughts. It needs more edits, info and a whole section on “Validation” via testing is empty. That’s because testing to evaluate the reality is far from easy.
I know people have reported everything from losses to gains and some with no change. So anything is possible and anyone claiming solid answers may only be speaking for themselves as others might well be different.
I was the only one to comment I saw in this thread of their FTP dropping with the eflex which is why I was asking if anyone else saw that. 20 watt drop is pretty significant but don’t know how I fit with what others see
Copy that. I guess my experience and presence in the FB rocker group bleeds in and I include those comments in my evaluation. True, theres little mention of it here.
Notably, Coach Chad raised the power question in last weeks podcast related to his MP1. Worth a listen (around 26 mins in) if you haven’t heard it yet. Short and inconclusive, but might parallel your experience.
There was definitely a learning curve to using it, but that went away after a ride or two for me.
Didn’t notice a ftp drop, but don’t think I was that close to a test either so could’ve easily adapted between the time I started using the E-Flex and my next test.
It isn’t worth ruining your training plan but with the ramp test it would be relatively easy to test on the eflex, wait a few days, then test again with no rocker/platform. Not very scientific but you could get some idea if there was a significant difference for you.
Yup, a couple of wood clamps and the steering lock can get it “rigid” in minutes. Pure peak power, overall efficiency at different duration, general power changes and of course FTP (via any test method) are a few of the areas that are worth a look. Judging the gain/loss is the real challenge with all the potential variables.
I am hoping some scientist will take up bike trainer motion and get some quality testing done. There was some with pitch control, but I have not heard or seen anything related to rocking (left-right lean) or surge (fore-aft) motions and the impact in any measured way. I think it is a very interesting question and may have different answers (gains vs losses) with different power levels and motion direction(s).
If my knees were initially sore from being too used to a very firm upright trainer so the stabilizer muscles are overworked and get sore I’d expect it to take a bit of time to be able to train my stabilizers. Weak stabilizers could also explain the drop in FTP and why the muscle soreness during the ramp was slightly different then normal.
I’m hoping if weak stabilizers drop my ftp on the eflex then strengthening those stabilizers by using the eflex may help with increasing my outdoor power. Also hoping that as stabalizers aren’t the main muscles providing the power they should get stronger quickly so may have to retake the ramp test in a week or so as I may match my previous power.
That all makes sense to me. If you started with pain, getting beyond that may take time, assuming the change in the system (E-Flex now) will be a positive change that can lead to improvements that remove that problem.
One data point that might be easy to look at is how much movement people have while pedaling steady state. I seem to be around 0.5 to 1cm fore to aft but also seems like I’m moving less now then when I started
I actually made a “gauge” on my base to be able to see the amount of movement. I agree that in general, less movement will likely be better.
It’s the same idea seen when we got motion rollers with the same surge motion. Seated pedaling at Threshold and below??? should be minimal until fatigue starts to develop. Most of the motion is likely from the unbalanced nature of our legs in motion. Contrary to popular belief, we are not equally shifting mass in pedaling, so some motion is inevitable. It may well “lose power” when compared to a rigid setup, but I am not certain that is true. As power increases above Threshold, I think out pedaling tends to get more forceful and possibly erratic to a degree, and that can lead to more motion.
This is all when seated, because standing leads to even more motion since there is more body mass in play.
Agreed, it’s entirely possible that is a negative issue, and one reason I say we really don’t have enough information to make claims one way or the other.
For anyone interested, here is the document I have started on the “Power” discussion:
we don’t have statistics, but it is common to hear people state they can put down more power outside than inside. One reason might be due to power losses from rigid setup, as it fights against the natural motion of the body while pedaling.
So my 2018 kickr had issues so doing a warranty replacement. Thankfully I didn’t get a chance to sell my old 2017 kickr yet because of covid. Send easy to swap and flip the spring around. The one thing I noticed was the spring part should add lips to both ends. That way you can just push the kickr back until the rear leg his the lip so no need to measure 90mm. The end not being used is fine too have a lip cause the leg above it had a good amount of clearance.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t move either base so it seems like the front base has to move closer to the trainer by 3/4" and to the right by 3/4”. Just seems weird
I was near the very end of a ramp test today when the watts readout disappeared. After a few shocked seconds, I realized the end of the power cord to the Kickr (which I had taped to the mat for neatness) had come unplugged. I was able to replug it and started again, only to have it happen again after a minute. I think the fore/aft movement became unusually pronounced as my cadence slowed from low 90’s to 60ish as I tried to grind out the last minutes. So I will have to redo the ramp test, but it occurred to me (without first reading your draft paper) that when you are grinding for the last few watts, your body movements become pronounced and that movement could “steal” watts. Since a RT is only ~25 minutes, the comfort of the E-Flex is not necessary. I think it would be interesting to try an apples-to-apples comparison doing RT with E-Flex and then a few days later (with similar recovery before both tests) to see if there is a difference. My gut tells me there would be, but my gut has been wrong before.